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Info On Centrifugal Roasters???
metal
Dan wrote:
I brought my Machinery's Handbook home and it has solved the nomenclature mystery.



There was no mystery.... All we had was me giving some knowledge and being clipped for it.

Keep in mind that your Machinery's Handbook is going to word in terms of metals and fabrication etc. A geologist will word in terms of cliff face in respect to angle of repose. A centrifuge designer may even use the term with reference to the law of "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" with the theory of "angle of repose" working in reverse with applied force. I guess, what I am trying to point out is that the Machinery's Handbook is also only a small instrument in the broad field of engineering. To pick one bible among all bibles as finite is to limit ones knowledge. To chastise one for their broader use of a term through experience is just rude.
i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/metalcrafter/coffeebloomfeathertransparent.jpg
 
Dan
metal, There was a mystery, and it was mine. I'll go back and edit my post for the sake of clarity.

If you think I was chastising you, you were mistaken. What you saw was me learning something I didn't know before and trying to understand the physics involved in this new roaster. No one expects us hobbyists to come here and know everything. This isn't an engineering forum. It's a place where people share what they know, ask questions, and learn at their own pace in their own way. Where is it written that we all have to agree on the definition of terminology?
Dan
 
http://www.intactamerica.org
metal
Dan wrote:
metal, There was a mystery, and it was mine. I'll go back and edit my post for the sake of clarity.

If you think I was chastising you, you were mistaken. What you saw was me learning something I didn't know before and trying to understand the physics involved in this new roaster. No one expects us hobbyists to come here and know everything. This isn't an engineering forum. It's a place where people share what they know, ask questions, and learn at their own pace in their own way. Where is it written that we all have to agree on the definition of terminology?
Dan


Dan, we could continue to beat this bush (as in answer your last question and expound on the scope of you entire last post) but you and I would probably agree that this would be counter productive for what we all are trying to achieve here.

Again I digress, peace...
i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/metalcrafter/coffeebloomfeathertransparent.jpg
 
Dan
metal, If that is your way of sayng let's bury the hatchet, then I agree, even though I didn't know we were in conflict, only having a discussion.

Dan
 
http://www.intactamerica.org
David
PeterZ, I think these are the threads for your roasters:
PGR
BMTO
 
Alchemist
I am going to beat this bush. Metal, I don't see where you were 'clipped' by Dan. All I see is Dan researching information, passing it along, and having a great time doing it. Him and I have discussed things like this in the past and people get all fretful about the 'argument' we are having when there is no argument. I don't get what you and others are seeing in this kind of case where you see a conflict. It's only a discussion as Dan says. My $0.02 worth.
 
seedlings
It takes most of us a longer time to put our brains around new/unseen concepts. Metal and Dan, you guys are just thinking out loud (as my wife does). We're all just commenting on your thinking-out-loudness. I think, all in all, we have to say the winner of this battle is Probat and Burns.

What I'm saying is there is no pecking order. We all toss ideas out into the fray and it may be easy to feel slighted, but it isn't so. Since I've been here there are back-and-forths, but it's an iron sharpening iron scenereo.

Blessings,
CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
David
Dan told me that he and metal exchanged PMs and all is well between them.

Thanks, Dan.
Thanks, metal.

Keep posting, guys.
You have an interested audience of folks who appreciate your thinking aloud.

H)
 
seedlings
David wrote:

Keep posting, guys.
You have an interested audience of folks who appreciate your thinking aloud.


Yes, you do have an interested audience! Especially with rumors of a new roaster building contest. So, bring on the trigonometry.

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
Dan
Speaking of trigonometry, I went to see if Jim had uploaded his speadsheet to the Downloads section, but nothing yet. How about it Jim, wanna share? Grin

Dan
Edited by Dan on 05/05/2008 9:43 AM
 
http://www.intactamerica.org
ginny
hey seed:

new roaster building contest??

sounds way cool to me.

thanks for being a forum moderator and member!

ginny

s:2s:2s:2s:2
 
peterz
wow! My quick reply disappeared. :(
Anyway, I built a bread machine / turbo oven roaster a couple of years ago, and have since roasted several hundred pounds with it. It finally bit the dust, but it really was a pretty good roaster.
Learned a lot from working with it.
It could easily net 3# with only 2 batches, and back to back roasting was no problem

The bigger roaster, which has been on the shelf for a year and a half :
http://homeroaste...2#post_921
has been on here and was just found again by David Grins:1
I also, have Project attention deficit disorder. (PADD)
My garage is even FULL of things that really need to be finished....

I just thought you would like to check out the paddle I had come up with. There are also some pictures of the results of the roast. It does roast pretty evenly, but I think I may have to shut the BM off when I take off the TO, otherwise roasted beans will launch.
I only tested the paddle design with green beans, and they all stay in :)
The roasted ones are larger and lighter. Not sure if they will leave or not. Good chance though.

If you insulate the bowl well, you can roast a pretty big batch.
With my PGR, the size of the bowl was the limitation.

Nice to be back,

PeterZ c:3
Edited by seedlings on 05/06/2008 2:18 AM
 
dBndbit
Dan, I'd be glad to share my centrifugal spreadsheet.
(One of many works-in-progress I seem to collect.)

Hey, there's a download section on this website!!!

However, I don't see any way to upload a file??? What am I missing?
--------------------------

New subject: What the heck is a centrifugal roaster, anyway?
Since I started this thread, I think I would like to make a distinction in roaster types that is purely based on concepts, not respect or bean worthyness. Namely I don't think a roaster based on a bread machine is a centrifugal roaster.

My first roaster was made out of a Welbilt BM similar to PeterZ's and others. So I understand and appreciate the functionality. However, if what I'm reading is correct, there are two important differences.

1. In BM roasters, all bean movement is generated by the stirrer. The bowl itself does not move. While in centrifugal roasters the bowl rotates the entire bean batch. The technique keeps the beans spread out over the entire surface of the bowl all the time except when they're flying through the air back to the bowl center. This could be achieving a much more complete exposure of the beans for heating.

2. In the centrifugal roasters the rotating speed, the size of the bowl, and the hot air flow all work together so that the entire bean batch is exposed to very high air-bean speeds similar to (or higher than) the air speed in the spout area of vertical air-spout roasters (approximately 50 ft/sec or more). Unfortunately, while there appears to be a lot of bean movement in a BM bowl, the speed of the outer edge of the stirrer and the beans themselves is never much more than about 3 ft/sec.

So in this thread I'd like to focus on understanding these unusual centrifugal machines. They may or may not be as good as their buzz, or there may be design limits that would make it impossible for home roasters to build their own. Anyway, I'd sure like to understand them better and I very much appreciate everyone's input, regardless of credentials.

And if you want to think about these unusual roasting schemes, I have a proposal drawing that will warp your brain. If I can figure out how to upload my spreadsheet, I'll also upload the concept drawing in PDF. I would definitely welcome any comments, good or bad.
Jim
11 years old... forever!
ReeferDoor.com
>home-built roasters and fair trade
 
http://www.ReeferDoor.com
David
Testing upload of zipped spreadsheet.
(A time/temperature layout for recording roasts.)

The Attachment caption sez ".zip" format is OK.
Let's see if this works, guys....
 
David
OK, it worked for me. :)

Someone else please try it out.
 
dBndbit
OK, I'll try the attachment again. If this works, the attachment below has two files, the centrifugal spreadsheet I'm working on as well as the proposal drawing for a possible 1/4-bag centrifugal roaster.
Jim
11 years old... forever!
ReeferDoor.com
>home-built roasters and fair trade
 
http://www.ReeferDoor.com
dBndbit
Dang, looks like it worked! But the big question is, did the files come though OK?
Jim
11 years old... forever!
ReeferDoor.com
>home-built roasters and fair trade
 
http://www.ReeferDoor.com
EddieDove
dBndbit wrote:
Dang, looks like it worked! But the big question is, did the files come though OK?


They sure did ... nice work!
Respectfully,

Eddie Dove

The South Coast Coffee Roaster
vita non est vivere sed valere vita est
Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Reference
http://southcoast...gspot.com/
 
http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com
John Despres
The downloads worked for me as well. Jim, your work is astounding - I don't have a solid grasp of what you're doing, but everytime I have a question, I find the answer righ there in the downloads.

Vey nice work.

Is there any risk of scorching or tipping as the beans slide up the walls? Or will the walls not be so hot as to damage the beans? I suspect the short ride up the side of the bucket may not be enough to hurt them.


Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
www.sceneitallproductions.com
Dan
Jim, Thanks for those files! Jim and I independently came up with the same solution for the recirculating heated air problem. The problem is the difficulty in arranging intake and exhaust ductwork and the difficulty DIYers have in making ductwork. The solution? Make the blower integral with the roasting chamber. I'd put my sketch up, but I'm going to wait until I see what the roaster contest rules are first. ;)

To me, a centrifugal roaster is more than the beans being pushed to the edge of a roasting chamber by stirring vanes. To me, it is a roaster where the beans experience sufficient centrifugal force that it negates the force of gravity upon them. That is, the beans cling to the wall of the roasting chamber, not the bottom. In a BM with stirring rod, the beans are clinging to the bottom, not the wall. To me, both the Bowl Roaster and Packed Bed Roaster are a Centrifugal Roaster.

Jim's design sketch is a combination of these two Centrifugal Roaster types, btw.

Dan
 
http://www.intactamerica.org
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