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Part 6 - Cooling tray
David

Quote

Alchemist wrote: I agree. 2" is a bit shallow. I honestly didn't look at height, only width. 4" would be even better if you can find it. Yes, see what you can find. 3-4".

I sent an email off to the vendor to see about exchanging.

Quote

Oh, and pouring. We are not going to attach the cake pan (cooling tray). The stir motor, stir vane junction will just fit together. The pan will just set in. When the beans are cool, you just left out the hole cooling tray and pour into what ever you want.

Amazingly (perhaps), I'm having trouble picturing that. :(
I won't tell you here all the odd pictures that are coming to my mind, but one of them involves digging under the hot rim of the cooling tray with my short fingernails to dig it out of the hole. :@
Does the motor come out with it? How about the stirring rake?
Would a handle on the cooling tray help?
 
Alchemist
Let's see if a picture is worth a 1000 words.

We could add handles, but with proper support, the stirring vanes would make a great handle.

Oh, and at the end, it will be COOL. No hot edges to burn your fingers on.
Alchemist attached the following image:
CT 1[532].jpg
 
David

Quote

David wrote:I sent an email off to the vendor to see about exchanging.


What a horrible experience with the folks at www.cakepancentral.com!! @

They have a NO RETURN policy, no exceptions. Shock
He even called me a bad name for trying to work out an exchange. :@:@

I heartily disrecommend these [anatomical expletive delected].
I hope they rot in [metaphysical location deleted].
David attached the following image:
nunnono[535].gif
 
David
Thanks for the drawing. I understand it now.

I found some 3" deep cheesecake pans with the removable bottom, but there weren't any 4" ones to be found. If found saucepans and stockpots, but no cakepans 12x4. Angelfood pans are that deep, but not of that diameter.

If we wanted to go with a 4" depth or whatever, how hard would it be to fabricate one to our own specifications?

Sorry for the rant about the bad service experience as cakepancentral.
David attached the following image:
puke[536].gif
 
Alchemist
That sucks.

I kind of feel bad you jumped on those and they are not quite right. What do you want to do? Go with those or see if we can find something else deeper?

I guess we need to be really sure from now on before we buy.

====

Now, I am NOT saying these are right, but I found these. 12" x 3 1/2". Not bottomless, but the more I think of it, eh, I think we could cut the bottom out or indeed just perf it ourselves. I bet you could find them locally with a little calling around to high end cooking stores.

What do you think?
 
Alchemist
Here is another one I found - 12" x 4". Solid bottom, but cutting or drilling the bottom should not be too bad.
Edited by Alchemist on 10/11/2007 8:49 AM
 
David
I have been finding more options also.

For example, I found out that the perforated bottom insert that we have been looking for may be one of these pieces of pizza equipment: a "Pizza Screen" or a "Perforated Disk"
 
Alchemist
Wow, sorry about the delay there. I like the openness of the Pizza screen, not to mention the price. Thinking out loud - if we go with that, we would have to support the stirring vane shaft, but that is no big deal.

Tentatively, I say we go with the 12" x 4" solid bottom cake pan and cut the bottom out, plus the matching Pizza screen. Did the source you found for cake pans have any larger? Our design (roaster 16" wide minus 1.5-2" edge support) would accommodate up to a 14" one, although 12" is fine, and the pizza screens go up to 14" (although, I would go for a "shelf" and get a 14" cake pan, and 13" screen so we have no chance of binding).

I am going to attempt to get an outline sketch up today.
 
Alchemist
OK, here is the first "official" drawing. I say it that way in that it is how I start. It is to scale, but there are no dimensions. It is the concept drawing. What you see is a top view and front view. The red is 3/4" aluminum angle. What I will flesh out will be the exact dimension, and a lot more detail.

What we will be doing is taking a piece of 3/4" aluminum angle and bending it (with a jig assisted technique I will detail) in the shape of the top view edge. It's mirror image will be built for the base. Will will join them by aluminum angle as shown (the red L's) to give it the appropriate height. A couple other supports will be present for the blower and stirring motor. Then it will have a sheet metal shell bent (with the same jib technique) and fastened on the outside surfaces. Inside surfaces will be sealed with aluminum duct tape.

Let's start with the basic's. Do you understand the drawing and what it is conveying? Can you "see" it in 3-D in your head?
Alchemist attached the following image:
cooler1[557].jpg
 
Alchemist
OK David, you ready? Here's the first real bit of working information.

We are going to be taking a piece (length to be determined below) 3/4" aluminum angle 1/16" thick, and bending it into the top and bottom frame shape we desire. From the roaster design section, we know the roaster is 16" wide (8" drum, 2" clearance (per side), 2" insulation (per side)). That gives us an outer (half) circumference of the frame of:

16 x 3.1415 x 0.5 = 25.13"

In order to make this bend nice and easy, we are simple going to notch the aluminum at intervals. I played around with a few numbers and 1 per inch should go very nicely. This is verified by seeing what the inner 1/2 circumference needs to be, i.e.

(16 - (3/4 x 2 ) ) x 3.1415 x 0.5 = 22.78"

25.13 - 22.78 = 2.36"

With the cuts we need to remove 2.36 inches of material.

2.36 / 25 = 0.0942" or virtually exactly 3/32" or the width of a standard blade cut.

As for the total length, we have

25.13" + 8 (side) + 16 (back) + 8(side) = 57.13" or just shy of a 6 foot piece.

A few other notes that are floating in my head.

The two ends of the construction start at the back left (where you need to make a 45 degree cut for fit).

You come down 8" and start cuts 1" apart for 25 inches. You then start at the other end, go 16", make a V cut, another 8" from the center of the V and you would be within 0.13" of that last cut of the 25.

This will be given structural stability from the sheet metal shell. Rivet holes will be pre-drilled before all the 25 notches for the sake of strength (this is be a little wobbly until fastened together).

Two of these will be made and riveted together via aluminum angle uprights.

Personally, this is enough information for me to cut this out and know how I will put it together (but NOT put it together - we don't have the rest of the frame designed).

Input please. Is this enough for you? If not, where do I need to expound?
Alchemist attached the following image:
cooler2[559].jpg

Edited by Alchemist on 10/18/2007 12:39 PM
 
David

Quote

Alchemist wrote:Tentatively, I say we go with the 12" x 4" solid bottom cake pan and cut the bottom out, plus the matching Pizza screen.

I ordered the 12" pizza screen from foodservicedirect.com [I have had good service form them before.]

When it arrives, I will test fit it in the 12" cheesecake pan I already have.
If the fit is OK, then I'll get a 12x4 pan. If the fit is too snug, I'll go for the 13" pan.
 
David
I like your drawings, and I think I have the picture in 3D.

It looks like the aluminum frame is a box with one edge missing in order to accommodate the cooling tray. Is that right? If not, then I'll need a simple line drawing of just the aluminum frame -- just the parts that you put in RED in the first of the two drawings immediately above.
 
Alchemist
OK, a little more explanation. All you have in the above picture is one piece of aluminum angle. In red is the horizontal part that all the cuts will go in, black is the angle going "down".

The lower "thing" is the piece of aluminum after you cut it, but before it is bent up.

Oh, and check the dimensions. The 12" cooling tray is not going to touch this piece at all. This is the top and bottom outer frame. Once we know the exact dimensions of the cooling tray two more pieces of metal will go in to give support under the sheet metal. I will edit up the above image to show those proposed pieces in blue. No dimensions because we don't know them yet.

And because it is part of my goal here (is it yours?), did the math and HOW I came up with the above make sense? We will do the same thing for the frame of the main part of the roaster.
Edited by Alchemist on 10/18/2007 12:41 PM
 
David
I think I get it now. The drawing is just the outer skin.
The cooling tray itself is "hanging in mid-air" for the time being.

The directions for cutting the perimeter angle aluminum is very clear.
I will look for the 3/4" size. If it's not available in the quantity we need, I'll get the 1" and ask for new cutting directions.
 
Alchemist
Good job on finding the 3/4" angle.

I looked at the motor Dan sent and it's length including the shaft is just over 4". I have a tentative plan the base will be 8" thick, so if you can find a 3" deep cake pan, that should work out nice. 4" deep won't quite give us working room.

I don't think it matters if the pan is bottomless or with a bottom. It will cut like butter. Go for availability and price.
 
David

Quote

Alchemist wrote: if you can find a 3" deep cake pan, that should work out nice.


Roger that.
 
Alchemist
Since we have that height nailed down, I am going to run through a few other calculations and verify 8" will work for the rest of the roaster. After than I will get the rest of the drawings done and we can start fabrication.

While you are looking around, scope out the thin gauge sheet metal you want. Galvanized is ok in this application as no beans will be in contact. Thin aluminum sheet is fine too.

Also, for the bending jig (that I have basically only hinted at) you are going to need a few feet of wooden 2 x 4 and a piece of plywood around 2' square. Oh, and a few wood screws.
 
Alchemist
Hey, sorry about the long intermission here. Life and sickness got in the way.

I am going to see about figuring out how much sheet metal we need for both the cooler here and the roaster in general.

Do you want to buy it all at once or a couple pieces at a time?

Remind me where you are with the tray itself? I like the link to the flour sifter you found. Did you find out if it had a support rod?
Edited by Alchemist on 12/07/2007 4:14 PM
 
David
I have been away also. I went to Texas to see family and to Phoenix for a conference. It took a day to get caught up on sleep!
--
I want to buy the metal all at once, if possible.
I may have a chance for a one-time deal on some scrap sheet metal. It is probably thicker than what you suggested. One sheet is galvanized and the other is stainless! I know you like your Zen II in part because it is lighter than Zen I.

The price may be more than right and I love the idea of having a stainless steel roaster. BUT, I will have to see it to decide if it is something that I can work with using low-tech home tools. I'll know next week on that one.

I like the looks of the flour sifter, but I strongly suspect that they all need that support rod. A friend of mine has a big sifter and it has the support rod. The screen is pretty flimsy. I also share your concern about the air flow through the fine screen.

Best mix of strength and airflow would seem to be the pizza screen. I think I'll go with that unless we can source some stainless steel mesh, a bit finer than what we have in the George Foreman wire mesh basket. That would be the best of all, IMHO, unless it would also need some kind of support. Any ideas along that route?
 
David
The price was right! I now have the stainless steel. c:2

I'm going to continue this post in the Frame Design and Construction thread.
 
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