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her63
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· 06/02/2020 9:10 AM
keep healthy bro, love roaster form home

pisanoal
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· 05/27/2020 10:14 AM
Anyone else have issues seeing the whole window of a thread when accessing from a mobile phone? Any fixes?

allenb
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· 04/02/2020 4:50 AM
Morning Ed, I haven't done any green coffee hoarding yet but am hoping the supplies don't end up like the toilet paper isles!

snwcmpr
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· 03/31/2020 2:53 PM
Hey Ed. Thanks. roar

homeroaster
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· 03/31/2020 11:21 AM
Hey quarantined home roasters! I hope you have great coffee! If they have a run on coffee, I hope you're set with your great home roast! Find me on Facebook! Ed Needham

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Aluminum & Health
mtbizzle
Health is a tricky topic to discuss in contexts like this, on the web. I don't intend to be sharing my opinions or recommendations about anything, just sharing information.

With that note, I just saw this discussion (a review of some studies on the topic of aluminum and health) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0Tyx...0TyxNT78Lw.

It did not strike me that this raises any particular concerns for coffee roasters specifically, though there was a point made about aluminum + stainless steel, together, in contact with foodstuffs. That matter may perhaps apply to some roasters, but I don't know. I know aluminum & SS are both commonly used by roasters. E.g., I just bought sheet aluminum for paddles for my flour sifter, use foil tape, and have a stainless steel funnel as a lid for my sifter.

One matter that is highlighted is aluminum in contact with acidic fluids (coffee certainly seems to fit that description). Brings to mind Moka pots -- and indeed the research paper seemed to have Moka pots pictured in it.

Two groups that were briefly highlighted in the discussion, were children and those with chronic kidney disease. CKD is quite common in older populations, so perhaps some of us fit that bill.

Citations accessible through the link, if anyone feels the need to dig deeper.
Edited by mtbizzle on 05/20/2020 4:05 PM
Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Comandante c40, Encore
Brew: v60, flair espresso, moka pot, french press, cezve w/ 'Scott Rao' water
Ask me about Tea!
 
renatoa
You forgot the most common case, also found in your signature Grin poppers can is made from aluminium... this fact alone is a good reason to switch to SS/glass
 
mtbizzle
Indeed! I have no idea of course how much aluminum makes it onto the beans. I'm trying to build two sifter roasters with stainless steel sifters at the moment, but that plan had nothing to do with this Grin I will probably be less inclined to use my Moka pot unless I learn more.
Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Comandante c40, Encore
Brew: v60, flair espresso, moka pot, french press, cezve w/ 'Scott Rao' water
Ask me about Tea!
 
Brandon
Watching this video, I just ordered an aluminum 6061 square tube for my fluid bed build. Am I up a creek on that one? I'm not the greatest metalworker, so the plan was to build the RC with that for workability and work out design kinks and then upgrade to SS in the future. Is that still a viable path, or should I look at other options?
 
mtbizzle

Quote

Brandon wrote:

I just ordered an aluminum 6061 square tube for my fluid bed build. Am I up a creek on that one?.. Is that still a viable path, or should I look at other options?


I definitely don't know. I suppose, maybe you could find a decent guess at an answer by looking back at the video / linked studies, and looking at the situation that is closest to what you see with your roasting chamber, or whatever part you are using aluminum for.

For example, I think there was data looking at aluminum used to brew drinks... and aluminum cookware... etc etc. I would think looking at the aluminum cookware (contact of solids w aluminum at high heat??) would be more applicable than using an aluminum brew vessel (contact of fluids w/ aluminum at high heat). That may help venture a rough guess at 'dose' (but not frequency) of exposure. I think it's tough to get a clear picture, though.
Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Comandante c40, Encore
Brew: v60, flair espresso, moka pot, french press, cezve w/ 'Scott Rao' water
Ask me about Tea!
 
JackH
I wonder if this would be a problem with the short time the beans would be in contact.
---Jack

KKTO Roaster.
 
Mbb
Junk science
 
JackH

Quote

Mbb wrote:

Junk science


Why do you say that?
---Jack

KKTO Roaster.
 
baldheadracing

Quote

Mbb wrote:
Junk science

It may be ... if you want to use that label.

Quote

JackH wrote:Why do you say that?

My answer to that would be to look into the channel. That particular YT channel is infamous for cherry-picking - citing papers and quotes that support their agenda, and ignoring everything else. Whether you want to call that biased, misleading, junk science, bad science, needs fact-checking, cherry-picking, or whatever, is a label ...

However, did he do that with this video? I don't know, but I do know that I would have to spend a few days on MedLine/PubMed and other databases to satisfy myself that the picture presented was unbiased - at least, that's what I used to do when I worked in Population Health. I do like the thought-provoking nature of the channel and had subscribed for years as part of that job.

Note that I am not saying anything about Aluminium being harmful. To me, it comes down to use. For example, if the Aluminium Oxide coating is maintained, then it is essentially impossible for Aluminium to leach out. However, acids in solution (like tomato sauce) are going to eat at that oxide coating. So ... not using Aluminium vessels when they come in constant contact with acids in solution seems like a no-brainer to me. Note that the "in solution" part is also important. Coffee beans are not in solution - until you make coffee. (That's also why the Aluminium/SS citation in the video does not apply to roasting.)

Regardless, I haven't seen any Aluminium alloy in hot areas in the factory-built roasters that I have looked at. That doesn't mean Aluminium is bad for roasters; it just means that there are materials with better qualities out there for a particular use. For example, the thermal expansion coefficient of Aluminium would rule it out for use in most areas of many drum roasters.
 
JackH
Thank you for the excellent reply.
---Jack

KKTO Roaster.
 
mtbizzle
Thanks baldhead! Yeah, just speaking for myself, I'm not worried about the aluminum I use (e.g. popcorn popper, aluminum in SC/TO project)

Quote

not using Aluminium vessels when they come in constant contact with acids in solution seems like a no-brainer to me.


That is what caught my attention personally more than anything. I have a moka pot, which is some form of aluminum to my understanding, and we do use it pretty regularly!
Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Comandante c40, Encore
Brew: v60, flair espresso, moka pot, french press, cezve w/ 'Scott Rao' water
Ask me about Tea!
 
Brandon
That's a great reply baldhead. Thanks for that!

The Aluminum for my roast chamber just came today, so I'm pretty excited to get to work on it
 
baldheadracing
Yes, the famous Bialetti is Aluminium. In its favour, the contact time is only a few minutes, albeit at boiling water temperatures. Coffee also is fairly weak as far as acid strength. It isn't like one is making cold brew and the coffee is sitting in the pot for hours, after all. It's a matter of exposure - how long (not long in a Moka pot if you pour right after brewing); how much (this isn't a big stovetop pot with lots of surface area); how strong (coffee is a weak acid); and ambient conditions (heat, etc.).

All that to say I see no reason not to use one, but I have to admit that I wouldn't buy an Aluminium one today, as there are other materials available.
 
renatoa
Yeah, those aluminium moka pots that after some extractions looks so ugly, and you can never bring them to initial shiny appearance... no, thank you.
 
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