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JackH
OnlineAdmin
· 08/06/2020 3:33 PM
Allenb, how are you doing?

Oneal
Offline
· 08/05/2020 1:08 PM
Is anyone roasting on a Coffee Tech FZ 94? Using Artisan. Need help. thumbdown

mtbizzle
Offline
· 08/03/2020 11:26 AM
There is (or was? Grin ) a gesha at sweet marias...

snwcmpr
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· 07/25/2020 12:31 PM
I ran out of Ethiopian Gesha.

snwcmpr
Offline
· 07/25/2020 12:31 PM
it is ok. I do not remember. I think it was a callout to the spam shout.

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Aging green beans
Neyxous
I have read differing opinions on this.... I am on the edge of buying a "Full" bag to break up and age to varying degrees.
On one hand I know beer, cheese and cigars age well, What are some opinions here on aging green beans?

-Sean
 
Koffee Kosmo
Green Beans will store for up to 3 years
Fresher is better
Flavour reduces the older the beans get

KK
I home roast and I like it
Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com/
Bezzera Strega: Mazzer Robur Grinder: 5 Box hand grinders: Pullman Tamper Convex: (KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster: CONA Glass Rod Syphon: Pyrex Brewer:
 
http://koffeekosmo.com.au
mtbizzle
My guess is that coffee will not benefit from 'age', unless there is some particular process we are having the beans undergo.

For example, in tea, green tea is not something you really want to age. Without question, it has a freshness window, and its quality is best then. Some other teas, like pu'er, other hei cha, liu an basket tea. These are very different products, compared to a zesty Japanese green tea. Generally, they are very minimally processed, contain live organisms, and very slowly the tea oxidizes, the organisms metabolize the tea, etc, the tea will change drastically over many years. Something green/light brown, will turn black and brown, and a cloudy yellow green, sharp fresh cup of tea will turn into a very dense, thick, oily, earthy and rich cup. There are lots of changes going on in the tea over time, as it 'ages'. The point being, to illustrate that the changes are known, intentional, and that the tea is made to be suitable for this aging process.

In wine and cheese, there are also live organisms involved. And I believe in all cases, light, heat, and oxygen exposure are avoided.

To my knowledge there is no coffee like the pu'er tea, red wine. A lot of the flavor and aroma comes from oils that will oxidize, stale, go rancid. And a lot of the flavor comes from carbs in the coffee that caramelize and 'brown' during roasting... neither the oils or the carbs last forever. Time is generally an enemy in these sorts of situations, because time is opportunity to oxidize etc. There may be some special coffee, that is made to slowly ferment or the like with the user, but I've never heard of anything like that.
Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Bunn G3, Comandante c40
Brew: aeropress, v60, la pavoni professional & flair espresso, Hoffmann french press, 'Scott Rao' water
Ask me about Tea!
 
renatoa
https://www.coffeereview.com/innovati...ked-cured/

https://tokyocoffee.org/2016/05/29/ca...de-lambre/

https://www.coffeereview.com/coffee-r...ed-coffee/

https://www.thespruceeats.com/guide-t...fee-765181

The beans in the last link remember me the look of aged beef, before cleaning and trimming... disgusting Grin
What a delight after roasted, though...
 
Neyxous
That is quite a picture! Oh my....

Thanks for the links. Very intersting. :)
 
mtbizzle
Tom from SM is talking about "aging" in a specific sense here, not the processes Renatoa was referencing, but here is a discussion where comments on "aged" coffe:

Quote

The tastes associated with age are hard notes, namely bagginess: a burlap-like taste. It belongs to a family of defects where the fats in the coffee absorb odors over time, and the degradation of the lipids in particular. The bean structure degrades too, stored probably in too hot or too cold temperatures, losing its moisture content as time goes by. Moisture may also be liberated from the coffee only to condense in a container, which can form an environment where bacteria and mold can possess the coffee.

The standards for age are not going to be uniform from continent to continent, region to region, and cup to cup. Two coffees can possess the same amount of off taste in the cup, and one will be passable while another will be intolerably defective. A bright acidy coffee will fade, and become insipidly mild ...if it takes on baggy notes, these will be very obvious and very contradictory to the cup character of the coffee. A Sumatran that features low-acidity, body and depth, with some degree of earthiness or mustiness will disguise the baggy tastes quite well. It will be VERY apparent in the appearance of the coffee, but the cup will be more passable.

In fact, this is the basis for Aged coffees; they are after all SERIOUSLY degraded, defective cups. But the quality is excused because the consumer is seeking the smoky, aggressive character intended to be both mellowed and pungent at the same time. (And in fact, Aged coffee is NOT old coffee: it is aged with care by rotating the bags or otherwise rotating the coffee to even out the moisture distribution and prevent any bad things like mold from developing. It is done in the county of origin, usually at some altitude to avoid extreme temperature or humidity fluctuations. It is expensive since the costs to age it are great, the reward delayed, there is labor involved, and the risk of possibly turning out a rotten cup of coffee after 2-3 years! I have seen people pass of old coffee as aged coffee ---this is nothing short of fraud! Example: "Aged Swiss Water Decaf Sumatra Gayo Mountain"!!!)

Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Bunn G3, Comandante c40
Brew: aeropress, v60, la pavoni professional & flair espresso, Hoffmann french press, 'Scott Rao' water
Ask me about Tea!
 
renatoa
Speaking about aging... weird science Grin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2meeY...meeYcxXoVs
 
mtbizzle
I'm curious what people think of Sweet Maria Tom's take on the freshness of green coffee. He has an interesting write up, quoted above, here - https://legacy.sweetmarias.com/librar...is-too-old

Interestingly he actually gives dates on how old is the point where greens are starting to get too old:

Quote

So, as a general rule I sell out of every coffee we stock within 5-6 months of it having arrived in the US. I avoid certain early-picking of Centrals. I cup the coffees every month to see if there is any sign of age coming on... and NEVER buy a coffee that might show a sign of degraded cup character. My standard is that the coffee should get to the customer and be consumed within the year ...I have a 5-6 month window, and the customer gets 5-6 months.


Compare this to sweet maria's stock.... many of the beans are from August/September 2019. August is 9 months ago, pushing 10. In Tom's stated timeline, that coffee is pushing the freshness window.

Several guats are on sale at SMs, but they are in this range. Would you have any hesitancy buying those beans, if you did not have an intention to roast them in the immediate/short term?
Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Bunn G3, Comandante c40
Brew: aeropress, v60, la pavoni professional & flair espresso, Hoffmann french press, 'Scott Rao' water
Ask me about Tea!
 
renatoa
There are big warehouses in Europe selling even 2017 crops, so... if you are complaining about months, you are too picky Grin
 
baldheadracing

Quote

Compare this to sweet maria's stock.... many of the beans are from August/September 2019. August is 9 months ago, pushing 10. In Tom's stated timeline, that coffee is pushing the freshness window.

Several guats are on sale at SMs, but they are in this range. Would you have any hesitancy buying those beans, if you did not have an intention to roast them in the immediate/short term?

Now you know why those coffees are on sale.

I wouldn't buy a 10 month old washed Central American unless I absolutely needed a Central and I was roasting all of it immediately. On washed Centrals, in the past I have found baggy notes start to come in around 11-14 months, and the coffee is only good for well-into-second-crack roasts and blends by 15-18 months.

A 2017 commodity Brazil may well roast just as well as a 2019 crop, but if one is buying greens at the quality that Sweet Maria's strives for, then I would strongly recommend sticking with current crop to get all the goodness that you are paying for.

OTOH, I have heard that people like the past-crop baggy coffee taste. It can add a woody note that can be enjoyable - see oaked wine, for example (which I also don't like, LoL). However, if I want a woody note, then I'd add that note in brewing. (See James' video on that wierdness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2meeY...meeYcxXoVs ... and if you like that, his take on Cafe L'Arbre's aged coffee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p2hl...p2hlaT7IaI )

Myself, I switched to storing green coffee in sorted (screened) vac-sealed bags in a freezer a few years ago. My freezer doesn't go as low as the industrial freezers that roasters like George Howell use, but green coffee that has been in there for four+ years now still meets the tasting notes of the coffee when it was fresh. No more worrying about dates ...
 
mtbizzle

Quote

baldheadracing wrote:
Now you know why those coffees are on sale.

I wouldn't buy a 10 month old washed Central American unless...


This is what is a bit surprising to me, coming from sweet marias. It seems unusual, but honest, for a retailer to state this kind of information about freshness publicly. It strikes me as doubly unusual... if the retailer does not "abide" by what this implies very closely. (Most of the coffees I have looked at recently from SM are August-Sept 2019 arrival). E.g. aside from the guats, I was thinking of some Ethiopians which sound amazing, the Sidama Keramo washed, Sidama Bombe washed, and their yirgacheffe. Unsold stock is unsold stock, no surprise they will still sell it, but it seems they do have a premium vs most retailers.

Quote

I switched to storing green coffee in sorted (screened) vac-sealed bags in a freezer a few years ago.


I should do this Grin I feel like a lot of Americans these days have an extra freezer or fridge. We do. Others in my household would not appreciate this encroachment, but... Grin
Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Bunn G3, Comandante c40
Brew: aeropress, v60, la pavoni professional & flair espresso, Hoffmann french press, 'Scott Rao' water
Ask me about Tea!
 
renatoa
Aren't for coffee good years and bad years, as for grapes ?
Last year summer (2019) I heard from pro roasters, about many origins, "I would better stay with a 2018 crop, than using last crop beans, they aren't that great..."
 
baldheadracing

Quote

mtbizzle wrote:
This is what is a bit surprising to me, coming from sweet marias. It seems unusual, but honest, for a retailer to state this kind of information about freshness publicly. It strikes me as doubly unusual... if the retailer does not "abide" by what this implies very closely. (Most of the coffees I have looked at recently from SM are August-Sept 2019 arrival). E.g. aside from the guats, I was thinking of some Ethiopians which sound amazing, the Sidama Keramo washed, Sidama Bombe washed, and their yirgacheffe. Unsold stock is unsold stock, no surprise they will still sell it, but it seems they do have a premium vs most retailers.

Keep in mind that this year is very, very, far from normal. SM could even have a space issue - there wasn't much coming in for a while, but a lot of green coffee is estimated to be coming into the USA in the next six weeks.

I've also heard that the Guatemala Xinabajul that SM has on sale is worth picking up if you like sweetness. (I have no idea.)
 
mtbizzle

Quote

baldheadracing wrote:
I've also heard that the Guatemala Xinabajul that SM has on sale is worth picking up if you like sweetness. (I have no idea.)


Hey, get out of my head! Haha. Right when I heard SM would put guats on sale I went to buy 5# of Guatemala Xinabajul Marca Roja... but it's not included in the sale.

Quote

Keep in mind that this year is very, very, far from normal. SM could even have a space issue - there wasn't much coming in for a while, but a lot of green coffee is estimated to be coming into the USA in the next six weeks.


Huh, I did not know. I guess it makes a lot of sense with the cluster that this year has been. Where can someone keep up to date with this sort of information? Also did not know the next 6 weeks would be seeing a lot of new coffee.
Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Bunn G3, Comandante c40
Brew: aeropress, v60, la pavoni professional & flair espresso, Hoffmann french press, 'Scott Rao' water
Ask me about Tea!
 
baldheadracing

Quote

mtbizzle wrote:Huh, I did not know. I guess it makes a lot of sense with the cluster that this year has been. Where can someone keep up to date with this sort of information? Also did not know the next 6 weeks would be seeing a lot of new coffee.

Importer websites and being on their e-mail newsletters.

For example, I get most of my greens from Royal Coffee's Crown Jewels program (greens sold in 22lb boxes), so I'll use their website as an example. Their offerings page is https://royalcoffee.com/offerings/ (or click through from the main menu). There are a bunch of filter drop-down boxes at the top of the page.

First thing is to select "Warehouses." Royal's main warehouse is Oakland, so that's the one I pick. Then there is a "Position" drop-down. "Spot" means the coffee is here, "Afloat" means the coffee has been shipped from origin, and "Future Shipment" means ... ;-). So by clicking, applying filters, etc., you can see what's here, what's coming, and what has been bought but not shipped. Royal also gives ETA. I check every once in a while.

Other importer websites have similar features ... Cafe Imports has a different layout which some might prefer. (Cafe Imports also has something similar to Royal Crown Jewels called La Bodega, but it is for 50lb bags.)
 
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