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JackH
01/04/2019 10:55 AM
2 years today...Miss you Ginny!

JETROASTER
01/04/2019 4:24 AM
A little shout for the G'ster. 2 yrs. roar

allenb
12/27/2018 5:14 AM
Hi Brandon, please disregard the "please update". I think we're all up to speed now. The need for cache clearing get's me every time! limb

NetriX
12/26/2018 11:36 AM
Update? pouring Merry Christmas back atcha

allenb
12/26/2018 3:07 AM
Merry Christmas Brandon. Please update soon! christmas tree

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renatoa

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TC4 and roaster setup.
a1970gto
So, I have a long way to go before I'm ready to roast, but here's what I have so far.

1. 12.1 ohm coil that I have a 240VAC circuit wired to run. This is from mhotes, he's supplied ceramic tube and post for coil. 30 amp circuit running it, should only need 19 amps to run.
2. Kirby vacuum moter to run on 120VAC.
3. Pyrex baking tube with funnels secured to both ends with flanges and all-thread
4. TC4 with aArtisanQ_PID 6_6 running on Arduino Uno. (only thing I've modified from what I've downloaded is to get the LCD 4x20 working.)
5. ZCD
6. Two SSRs, one random fire.
7. 2 1/2 exhaust pipe, 2' section and a short 90.
8. High temp 10 gauge wire for coil.

Questions:
1. I think that my motor and heating element 4500 watts should be more than plenty for the Pyrex baking tube volume of 175ci. Is that correct?
2. Would JB Weld be suitable for plugging holes for coil wire to go through exhaust pipe?
3. What is used typically to seal up the glass cylinder to the cocktail shaker lids or funnels?
4. The random fire SSR is for the motor, ZCD and stand SSR are for the heating element? I'm assuming the Crydom D2425 is standard and the D2425-10 is random fire.
5. Do I need to hook up my ZCD to the 240VAC or 120VAC line? Seems like I should do the 240VAC since that's what I'm running my heating element off of. That also depends on the answer to question 4.
6. I feel like there are some setting in the user.h tab that I need to change, but I'm at a loss as to what, any help there would be much appreciated.

That's a mouthful as it is. Thanks to everyone for being so helpful, I'm kind of blown away by the support in the community. Thanks for being awesome!
 
JSA Coffee
1. Yes, your motor and element should be way more than enough for a Back A Round.

2. I used a high temp RTV (red) and it holds up well.

3. Again, I used Red RTV to seal it to the shaker. It's a plus if you have small hands available to fit inside the tube to help wipe any excess off.

4-6. I am adding my TC4 to my setup now, so I don't have the knowledge to answer those questions. Someone will be along soon to answer those.
 
greencardigan
1. Agree, this is heaps of power. You could probably roast 1kg green with 4700W.

2. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the coil (heating element?). Red RTV silicone should be fine but not if it's touching the actual nichrome element wire.

3. I typically use RTV for this too.

4. The ZCD is primarily for the motor and random fire SSR but may also used for the heater (I think).

Yes, the -10 signifies that it it instantaneous turn-on (random fire). Datasheet is here https://www.digik...anel-mount

5. I think you should connect the ZCD to the 120V circuit as the ZCD is being used to monitor the power to the motor so it can switch it at the correct timing. However, I am not familiar with your power circuits in the US(?) especially for the 240V circuits.

6. I have released a setup guide for aArtisanQ_PID version 6_7 that has setup info for the user.h files. See the download in this thread. https://forum.hom...post_67221
 
a1970gto
JB Weld is red high temp RTV, so that's a yes.

If the ZCD is for the motor, then I'll hook it up to the 120V circuit.

We form 240V by combining two 120V circuits that are out of phase from one another. Thanks for the guide.
 
JSA Coffee
JB Weld is a two part epoxy that dries hard as a rock with minimal flex. Red RTV is very flexable when dry, and can flex with changes in temperature.

Two very different products. I don't think JB Weld would work in a roasters build like this, but try it and let us know.
 
a1970gto
So I have everything hooked up. I followed Brad's setup instructions for the user.h file. I believe I have everything set up properly, but apparently I don't because nothing is coming on. Serial monitor commands don't turn anything on. When I set a command in either Artisan or the serial monitor, the display reads the proper value for OT1/OT2, it also displays when I send the READ command. My SSR is working. I can hook a battery up to the SSR to bias it and the fan comes on, same with heater. The LEDs for OT1 and OT2 on the TC4 do NOT come on with the signals.

Artisan (aArtisanQ_PID 6_7) LCD says 6_6 on bootup.
PAC3
LCD_I2C 4x20 0x3F
60Hz
BAUD 115200
DUTY_STEP 1

(Didn't mess with this, but seemed relevant)
#define OT1 9 // OT1 is on pin D9
#define OT2 10 // OT2 is on pin D10
#define OT_PAC OT2 // phase angle control on OT2 (AC fan, usually)
#define OT_ICC OT1 // integral cycle control on OT1 (AC heater, usually)
#define LED_PIN 13

#ifdef CONFIG_PAC3
#define PHASE_ANGLE_CONTROL // phase angle control for OT2(fan) and ICC control for OT1(heater)
// zero cross detector (ZCD) connected to I/O3
#define EXT_INT 1 // interrupt 1
#define INT_PIN 3
#endif

Any help would be appreciated. It doesn't seem as if anything is coming out of OT1 or OT2. I don't have a o-scope right now, but I can get one.
 
a1970gto
Not sure what I did, but I think this is what I did. In the Arduino IDE software I performed a Tool -> Auto Format (Cntrl+T) then did a Sketch -> Verify/Compile. It now works under Serial Monitor commands. I can enter in OT2;{} and it turns on the fan or OT1;{} and it turns on the heater.

Also the versions match now as well, on the I2C LCD on start up it says aArtisanQ_PID_6_7, before it was 6_6.
 
greencardigan
Not sure what was happening there...

Although it sounds like 6_7 wasn't actually loaded is it was still showing 6_6 on the LCD. That doesn't explain the no output issues though.

Glad you got it working!
 
a1970gto
So basically the problem was between the keyboard and the floor. I thought verify/compile was uploading the sketch as well, since I kept getting the low memory message. It was running 6.6, and once I started trying everything and eventually hit upload, it updated to 6.7. As you said, I’m not sure why it wasn’t working with 6.6, probably because I didn’t have any of the settings uploaded. I think I was also having issues because the IDE software and artisan were running at the same time causing issues with the comm port. So after several hours and that aha I’m an idiot moment I think I have it figured out.

So now I have to figure out artisan. Is there a good resource for that? For a fluidbed roaster? I’ve been on their website, but didn’t know if there was something better. Right now I’m stumbling with creating a base profile for the PID to follow, or am I not thinking of that properly?
 
greencardigan
Personally, I would be getting used to your roaster before attempting a PID controlled roast.

Your profiles are likely to be at least slightly different to other roasters due to differences in probe placement and airflow differences.

I would start by logging your roasts but manually controlling the outputs. Recording details like the temperature when beans change color, first and second crack occur etc. It's those sort of parameters that will help you develop a profile.

I created a few short tutorial videos showing how to set up Artisan when using a TC4. https://forum.hom...post_63918
 
a1970gto
Ya, I’ve seen those, very helpful, thank you! I guess what I’m looking for is something that shows me what temps to get ET to in order to start a roast, or do I just start at room temp? Theres good stuff out there for a drum roaster, just not for a fluidbed. Since we can control our temp a lot better than a drum roaster, it seems, what to do to ramp up your BT. Is there a general form to follow for a curve, for instance do you ramp up with a curve or just follow a constant RoR until I get to first crack? How long should a roast be, how does it change things to lengthen or shorten the roast? Or am I just way over thinking it?
 
Wiz Kalita
I'm playing a lot with the starting temperature in my popcorn popper these days, and so far I believe that starting at a low temperature can give more acidity. I don't do room temperature anymore since it's not entirely reproducible if you roast back to back. The second roast will always start a little bit heated. I let the roaster stabilize at 70° C these days and it works well. You're definitely not overthinking it, these are all important parameters that are different from bean to bean. I'm not an expert but here is a profile I've had luck with.

https://i.imgur.com/NYN8u2z.png
 
renatoa
You can see this somewhat as the equivalent of turning point in high thermal inertia scenarios, where preheat is mandatory.
In both cases, you are somewhere in the 100C neighbourhood at minute 2.
 
a1970gto
I completely understand the need to figure out my roaster, I understand that TC placement and calibration will change where my FC is comparatively to someone else's roaster. I think what I'm after is a good explanation of the different phases and why. My personality basically demands that I understand what I'm doing, it bugs me just to follow a recipe.

So why does marking the drying, Maillard, FC phases actually matter. I think I understand the drawing out of the FC phase in order to develop the flavors, but it seems as if most people think that the drying and Maillard phases don't really do a considerable amount to effect the cup, so why do they matter? Is it solely to set yourself up for the FC phase? Or are they just clear markers, places where you can track the roast for reproducibility?

Is there a reason to aim for 100C at minute two?

My heater/fan combo is putting out about 550-650F as far as I've been able to test so far. That's based on rather poor TC placement at my current setup, still waiting on some stainless exhaust components to get welded up. So what would be a good ramp up temperature based on that. Or do I just literally have to play around with temps until I get to that 100C at 2 minutes, FC at 6:30ish, or some other marker?

Artisan says that you aim for a 20-25% development ratio, what's your experience with that? A good starting point, but can go outside of that? Or absolutely must stay inside that window?

I don't feel like I have that much to share, but thought I'd show you what I have.

RC https://imgur.com...
Fan/heater/TC4 https://imgur.com...
Edited by a1970gto on 12/20/2018 10:49 AM
 
JackH
Your Imgur links are not working. I usually click on the photo in Imgur and select the size you want. It creates a link that works on message boards:

You can use BBcode:

i.imgur.com/FM5DPvcl.jpg

Or Linked BBcode:

i.imgur.com/FM5DPvcl.jpg
---Jack

KKTO Roaster.
 
a1970gto
I clicked on them once published to see if they worked, but oh well. I’ll try again.

i.imgur.com/oMie4b5.jpg

i.imgur.com/d3S4LqQ.jpg
 
JackH
It looks like you did it!
Happy to help.
---Jack

KKTO Roaster.
 
a1970gto
So my first roast did NOT go well. From what I've been able to figure out I had the channels reversed for BT and ET in Artisan. Once my roast began I was stepping up at 5%, which is my defined duty cycle. at about 20% I think I accidentally hit "Control" and Artisan started controlling the roast. With the BT and ET swapped it over drove the heating element to 100% and charred everything. I noticed that the roast was progressing way too fast, I turned off the heating element to no avail. Later I found out that the heating element relay had shorted and kept roasting. Once I figured that out I shut off the breaker, but way too late. Neighbors were coming outside to see if I needed help, I was getting texts from another neighbor asking if I was roasting coffee or should they call 911. The smell was horrendous. It still is in fact.

I have several questions I hope that someone may help me out with. First off, I noticed that the BT and ET were swapped before hand and I swapped them on the TC4, but that didn't seem to effect what Artisan sees, does that make any sense? It would show that the BT TC was connected to BT on the I2C display, but when I would turn it on in Artisan, it showed them swapped. The only way I was able to get them to work correctly in Artisan was to swap channel 1 and 2 in the configuration. That doesn't make sense to me, but if someone could enlighten me, that would be great.

The second roast went much better, but not great. My heating element shut off during the middle of the roast and it wouldn't turn back on. I would increase the duty 5% and then it would turn off after a second or two. I had to end the roast and restart it to actually finish it. Any idea what could cause that? My only idea, which I haven't confirmed yet is that I have the heater shut off at 20% fan duty, but I don't think that is the case, I thought I had the heater turn off at 10% fan speed.

Artisan button question now. Is there a way to add multiple commands to a button? For instance have a "Cooldown" button that turns the fan to 50% duty and the heater off. Something like OT2;50, OT1;0, is that possible? Also is there a way to have a "Heater +5" button and a "Heater +1" button? Right now I have the duty set up to 5% in the user.h file. Would I have to change it to 1% and then have an OT1;upx5 or something to that effect, or if multiple commands are possible, OT1;up OT1;up OT1;up OT1;up OT1;up (or something like that)?
 
greencardigan
Try running your roaster without beans a few times to test it all out and familiarize yourself with the controls.

You should be able to have the probes swapped around whichever way and just changes the settings in Artisan to suit. I think what might be happening in your case is the following.
- Running the TC4 without Artisan connected will use the default channel configuration. This actually sets ET on channel 2 and BT on channel 1. It's in the aArtisanQ_PID.ino file around line 1400ish.
Download source  Code

  actv[0] = 2; // ET
  actv[1] = 1; // BT
  actv[2] = 0; // default inactive
  actv[3] = 0; // default inactive



- When you are connect to Artisan, the software sends a channel configuration setting to the TC4. The configuration depends on the channel settings you set within Artisan.

What you did by swapping the channel settings in Artisan was correct, and made the Artisan channel setup the same as the TC4 default channel setup with ET on channel 2 and BT on channel 1. Hope that makes sense??


Do you have potentiometers connected to the TC4 to control the outputs manually? Did you have the Analogue inputs enabled in the user.h file you used?
Download source  Code
// Analogue inputs (optional)
// Comment out if not required
//#define ANALOGUE1 // if potentiometer connected on ANLG1
//#define ANALOGUE2 // if potentiometer connected on ANLG2



If you have the analogue inputs enabled without potentiometers connected your heater could jump to random values.

When you heater kept going off, what did the LCD show for the heater output? Was it changing?
 
greencardigan
Check this youtube video to see an example of increasing outputs by a set ammount using a button. It's using an earlier version of Artisan but should still work.

https://youtu.be/...

Not sure if you can add two commands for one button.
 
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