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allenb
12/14/2019 12:44 AM
Yes, 1st off, you must use only Panama Esmeralda Geisha beans and be sure to only roast on Saturdays. Actually, this isn't completely true. Please post in all about roasters forum. Thx!

wjohndon4566
12/13/2019 10:36 AM
I’m at 9,000 feet elevation, is there any special adjustments that need to be made to roast using an SR 540 at this elevation?

snwcmpr
12/07/2019 9:29 AM
roar

snwcmpr
11/27/2019 11:44 AM
greenman

allenb
11/27/2019 11:04 AM
Nice! I know Netrix is going through things and tweaking as he see's issues

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The well tempered roaster
renatoa
Discovered recently a post by Jim Schulman that was a revelation for me, after two years of roasting experiments.
This simple sentence summarize so perfectly the essence of what a roaster should do, that I am amazed it is not engraved as a motto for any roasting coffee related site.

"If there is one thing that somewhat works for all roasters, it's that a good roast requires that the ET follow a certain profile, and stay within certain limits, so the beans don't under dry, over dry, bake, scorch or tip.
Basically, this magic profile is a starting temperature of around 325F to 400F (163-204C), and a ramp up to around 450F to 480F(232-250C) in around 6 to 8 minutes, and holding it steady there to the end of the roast, whenever that may occur.
This ET part is basic roasting chemistry, and the same for all roasters and coffees. But the heat inputs required moment by moment to achieve this ET curve is based on the roaster's thermal characteristics, and is different for every roaster design. "

http://www.home-barista.com/home-roasting/timing-first-crack-heat-reduction-t11144.html#p127194

Why is this so important for me... because is about ET, not BT ! because I gave up to fight finding the method of accurate BT measurement... it simply don't exist !
And I say this as a computer/automatics engineer, since 1985...
The mix of beans and hot air is simply too chaotic to rely on any measurement method for predictable, repetitive and accurate results.
More, using this information (BT) to drive the process is simple lottery.
Conversely, measuring ET is so simple and precise, that the JS quote become a gem in this field.
All I can say is wish finding that statement two years ago...

End of rant, stone beat start :)
DIY: TO based IR to bean 750g
Moded commercial: Dieckmann RoestMeister, Nesco, popcorn.
TC4ESP, PID controllers, MS6514 USB/Artisan/Apps
Grinder: MBK Feldgrind, mod'ed Porlex to 47 conical burrs, vintage PeDe Dienes
 
oldgearhead
Renatoa - I have a temperature probe located 1.5 inches below the perf plate that has done an excellent job of keeping track of the air temperature. The probe at the start of the roast IS influenced by the bean temperature and at the end of 12 minutes it is a very accurate indication of roast level. Throughout the roast I use this temperature probe to maintain a good indication of an ever increasing ROR. In fact I removed all other temperature probes 5 years ago... but I do not use PID temperature control..
No oil on my beans...
 
renatoa
oldgearhead wrote:

...that has done an excellent job of keeping track of the air temperature.
...
but I do not use PID temperature control.. [/size]


Yes, is what I said, air temperature is by far easier and precise to measure than beans...

Me too I gave up with PID in the last months, the cheap controllers are unable to cope with fast changes of air flow temp.
Manual PWM give me the best results.
DIY: TO based IR to bean 750g
Moded commercial: Dieckmann RoestMeister, Nesco, popcorn.
TC4ESP, PID controllers, MS6514 USB/Artisan/Apps
Grinder: MBK Feldgrind, mod'ed Porlex to 47 conical burrs, vintage PeDe Dienes
 
oldgearhead
You will discover that if the probe is mounted close to the perf plate, the resulting reading is NOT entirely air temperature because the room-temperature greens have a big influence on the reading when introduced...
I use NO temperature control during a roast. I simply set the %on time of the heater based on the ambient air temperature. However, my roaster mixes roast chamber exit air and ambient air at the blower inlet.
This is what allows me roast 500 grams of greens with as little as 1.1 kw of electric heat..example: this weekend I expect 16 C temperature in the garage, so 95-16 = 79, 1550 x 79% = 1224 watts for 425g loads, I have a slightly different equation for 500g loads....
No oil on my beans...
 
jkoll42
renatoa wrote:

Discovered recently a post by Jim Schulman that was a revelation for me, after two years of roasting experiments.
This simple sentence summarize so perfectly the essence of what a roaster should do, that I am amazed it is not engraved as a motto for any roasting coffee related site.

"If there is one thing that somewhat works for all roasters, it's that a good roast requires that the ET follow a certain profile, and stay within certain limits, so the beans don't under dry, over dry, bake, scorch or tip.
Basically, this magic profile is a starting temperature of around 325F to 400F (163-204C), and a ramp up to around 450F to 480F(232-250C) in around 6 to 8 minutes, and holding it steady there to the end of the roast, whenever that may occur.
This ET part is basic roasting chemistry, and the same for all roasters and coffees. But the heat inputs required moment by moment to achieve this ET curve is based on the roaster's thermal characteristics, and is different for every roaster design. "

http://www.home-barista.com/home-roasting/timing-first-crack-heat-reduction-t11144.html#p127194

Why is this so important for me... because is about ET, not BT ! because I gave up to fight finding the method of accurate BT measurement... it simply don't exist !
And I say this as a computer/automatics engineer, since 1985...
The mix of beans and hot air is simply too chaotic to rely on any measurement method for predictable, repetitive and accurate results.
More, using this information (BT) to drive the process is simple lottery.
Conversely, measuring ET is so simple and precise, that the JS quote become a gem in this field.
All I can say is wish finding that statement two years ago...

End of rant, stone beat start :)


I think a lot has to do with the roaster design. I only measure BT and I'm just using a twisted TC (not even welded). I've consistently been hitting 1C at 400F +/- a degree F or two for years. 2C has a slightly larger range but that just has to do with bean variations. I'm not discounting your experience with your roaster but for me and mine I get consistent BT readings.

The biggest switch for me was when I started roasting based on Rate of Rise as opposed to temperature. Way easier! I'll likely actually cry when the Arduino/Artisan setup eventually craps out.
Edited by jkoll42 on 04/05/2017 8:51 AM
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3
 
JackH
@Renatoa

I have also read a study funded by Nestle I think. I have a link to it and will post it when I find it.

The only reason I monitor BT is to see how close I am to first crack. This seem to be a repeatable value.

Keep my ET at no more than 500F and avoid roasting longer than 15 minutes. I control the heater manually on my KKTO roaster (600- 700g).

I find that the heat reductions I do to maintain ET also seems to control the rate of rise at just the right time. This works for me and my roaster.
---Jack

KKTO Roaster.
 
renatoa
Yet another recent mathematical model of Maillard:

https://blog.oup....thematics/
Edited by renatoa on 09/08/2018 8:04 AM
 
snwcmpr
Since most people that try my coffee prefer commercially roasted coffee I have quit trying to please them.
The masses want a different taste. I do not want that taste.
I use the BT mostly. I am hard of hearing and I had an operation that reduced my ability to smell and taste. I rely on the instruments to validate what I see, smell, and hear.
My BT of 1C is consistent across beans, but vary by origins.
My RoR gives me a ballpark idea of where it is all going.

I was a machinist, not an engineer. I just run them, like Donald Sutherland in Kelly's Heroes.


Oddball : Hi, man.

Big Joe : What are you doing?

Oddball : I'm drinking wine and eating cheese, and catching some rays, you know.

Big Joe : What's happening?

Oddball : Well, the tank's broke and they're trying to fix it.

Big Joe : Well, then, why the hell aren't you up there helping them?

Oddball : [chuckles] I only ride 'em, I don't know what makes 'em work.

Big Joe : Christ!

Oddball : Definitely an antisocial type. Woof, woof, woof! That's my other dog imitation.

A lot of manufacturing engineers I knew could not run the machines that they were supporting. Some could. They could all talk circles around us about this and that, physics, calculus, forces, graphs, tool pressure, rake angles, and a lot of other interesting stuff that realty was useful in making precision products for the US Guberment.
But they knew it took something special to actually run one of them. You do not just put a tool in and press a button. [My rant over] :)

Ken in NC
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
 
renatoa
Actually, I started this thread exactly in this mood, to reveal the minimal knowledge required to roast, after confronting myself with some build where an accurate BT was impossible to measure, thus follow a profile.
So I tried experiment roasting based on ET and senses only... and finally found that Jim Schulman confirmation, about roast being mainly in the air, and then into beans.
 
CK
Great post. I agree, ET roasting is much easier and predictable. One just has to learn their machine and how well the beans uptake the heat energy put in... I only use PID ET roast profiles on the transparent roaster now. I used to roast via Artisan control based on BT, but the PID settings were much trickier to get an accurate profile follow. This varied by bean type and ambient temperature. Roast graphs are now much smoother and achieve a nice smooth declining ROR, yielding a better roast.
 
pisanoal
I'm building a 5lb fluidbed roaster for a buddy who has a small roasting business. He currently uses a 5lb bbq rotisserie drum and doesn't really have any insight into the roast other then time, smell and sound. I am building a fluidbed roaster with a 6" square RC and 45 degree perf plate design. I plan on putting a TC in the descending bean mass for BT readings which seems to work well for my 1 lb roaster, but I have one more spot on the thermocouple interface for another probe.

For ET would it be better to put the TC below the perf plate for incoming air, or at the point of exhaust at the top of the roaster?

If below the perf plate, will the radiant heat from the burner have a large impact on the TC reading, giving inaccurately high readings?

Thanks
Tony
 
renatoa
I think the best would be above the perforated plate... is the air that hits the beans actually, and the perforated plate change a bit the temperature.

Anyway, the exhaust temp is almost useless for the classic ET/BT Artisan based roast approach, as I found trying to TC4-ize a Gene.
 
pisanoal
Above the perf plate meaning in the actual bean spout?
 
renatoa
Yes, isn't there the highest temperature in the roast chamber ?
 
CK
On the transparent roaster, my ET probe works well very accurately about 5cm below the perf plate directly in the airflow path. The air is moving so fast through the tube there isn't any perceivable temperature change before contacting the beans.
 
pisanoal
renatoa wrote:

Yes, isn't there the highest temperature in the roast chamber ?


Yes, I would assume so... Other then directly below the perf. plate which in my case is technically still in the "roast chamber" section.

I guess it makes sense that is what I am trying to measure, meaning "highest T in the RC". I didn't connect those dots from the conversation and was part of what I was trying to wrap my head around.

Thanks!
 
pisanoal
CK wrote:

On the transparent roaster, my ET probe works well very accurately about 5cm below the perf plate directly in the airflow path. The air is moving so fast through the tube there isn't any perceivable temperature change before contacting the beans.


Makes sense. My only concern was the radiant heat from the burner. I guess it would all be relatable though.

This will have a stainless body with a 24" tall viewing window in the front, so I can put the TCs anywhere I want to drill a hole in the back of the roaster.

I'm glad a saw this thread. I would have put it on the exhaust temp. which admittedly doesn't tell me much on my current roaster other then it gives me some indication of when I'm about to lose ground on my BT and screw up my roast... lol.
 
renatoa
What about pressure change when passing through the perf plate ?
PV=nRT should tell us that temperature should change too...
Just wondering how big is pressure change... because it is significant, count and size of perforations can make the difference between 150 and 200 grams, in my tests...
 
8675309
I drilled a hole in my Chaff collector on my SR500 and use a probe to measure temp with very interesting results and a much better quality roast time and time again.

I monitor the temp and adjust settings accordingly and was quite surprised that the 'low' heat setting on the SR500 moved into the 400 range basically to FC and beyond and then I'd set to 'med' heat setting to prevent stalling finding 2C occurring around the 500 mark.

I get good consistent roasts now and love it.
It's bad luck to be superstitious
 
pisanoal
renatoa wrote:

What about pressure change when passing through the perf plate ?
PV=nRT should tell us that temperature should change too...
Just wondering how big is pressure change... because it is significant, count and size of perforations can make the difference between 150 and 200 grams, in my tests...


This should be proportional though, right? So as long as you know your roaster, it should give repeatable results in either place.

I see advantages/disadvantages to both.

Above perf plate is the temp the beans are seeing. Possible impacts from bean surface temperature on the TC.

Below, no bean impact, possible effects of radiant heat from flame.
 
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