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snwcmpr
10/22/2019 5:31 AM
Thanks to you all....... I was not sleeping ... I stayed awake worried about it all. :)

Koffee Kosmo
10/21/2019 5:00 PM
While you were sleeping I have been active in booting out some spammers along with the posts they tried to sneak past me

NetriX
10/21/2019 2:41 PM
Apologies, fixed it asap! BBQ grill

snwcmpr
10/21/2019 12:35 PM
WOW!! A few minutes ago the site page said "Account Suspended". And would not open the site.

snwcmpr
10/18/2019 2:37 PM
Eth Nat Yirg Idido roasted yesterday. I dropped some off at a friends coffee shop. In a few days he will brew it and tell me what he thinks. We believe my roasts are better than what we buy.

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Hottop or?
Charbucks
Alex you will not be disappointed.
 
Randy G
Charbucks,

Dude! Get Artisan and hook that roaster up! The real power of the "+" is the ability to create roast profiles using the "Alarm" function in Artisan. You can then examine how the programmed parameters affect the curve, and then modify. It is giving you control as well real-time feedback and create a real learning experience. And when you can load a previous roast as a template, then roast "over" that with the current roast superimposed on the old roast, it is like getting a classroom on roasting with every roast.

And the one thing you get with Artisan is TEMPERATURE PRIORITY! Time priority means almost nothing. Being able to tell the roaster things like, "Set the heat to 80% when the beans are at 350F," is invaluable! It makes the change in the profile at the same bean state every time. If you see that the drying stage is over at 308 for every roast and you want something to happen at that point it is a simple matter of creating an alarm to do that (remember that an "Alarm" in Artisan can be a lot of things, but most importantly it can be an automatic adjustment to roasting control parameters).

That is what the alarm sequence I wrote does. It sets the fan and heating power throughout the roast as I desire and it even starts and then turns off logging as well as drops the beans at a programmed temperature. If I see an unwanted hump or dip in the BT ROR I can then go into the alarms and make an adjustment when the roast is completed.

I am still learning the best use of the fan. Part of the problem is that the bean mass in such a (relatively) small roaster is such that when the fan goes on it affects the BT temperature DISPLAY. That is, you start moving air through the roaster and the BT can drop a little, but it is not a true measurement of the beans themselves as much as it is about the effect the airflow has on the ambient (ET) temperature in the roaster. It makes using Scott Rao's recommendations a bit more difficult than if you had a gas-fired 10kg Probat but you can still get very close.

I use the fan early in in the alarm sequence to clear the smoke, and later to quell the rise in ET to help create the desired development time. If you sort of think that heater control is slow and coarse, and the fan speed is the fast and fine adjustment, that should give you a basic idea.

But again, hook that thing up!!!!!

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
Charbucks
Hi Randy, I actually have been using Artisan. I guess I never really learned roasting too acutely on the HT as I relied on the program on my P computer. Now that I have so much control with the Artisan and the B-2K+ computer I have to relearn everything. I think I need to RTFM on Artisan. I too have read Rao's book, esp chapter 10.
 
ajf
Randy G wrote:

OK here you go, folks...
By downloading this files and/or using the enclosed data you accept all liability and responsibility for its use and release me from any and all liability, fault, claims, etc. Additionally, this is in no way affiliated nor approved by Hottop USA.

The ZIP files contains three files. A png of the roast, the Artisan alarm file for controlling the roaster, and the roast file itself intended to be loaded as a background. Note that the charge temp was a bit higher than I normally aim for. At these charge temps you need to keep an eye on the temperature because once you reach about 330-340 the temperature rises quickly. Aim for a charge temp of about 350 to 355.

Here is the file:
http://www.frcndi...5files.zip


There is a minor problem with the alarm file.

The action for alarm 14 is incorrect. It should be set to slider fan and not START.

Alan
There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
 
Randy G
I do not wnat to sound condescending, but there are three modes in Artisan (sort of):
1 - Just using it to monitor and graph while you control the Hottop "+" using the roaster's control panel
2 - Monitoring and graphing the roaster using Artisan while controlling the Hottop using the sliders in Artisan
3 - Using the "Alarm" system in Artisan and creating a set of alarms that automates the control of the Hottop while graphing the roast.

It is number 3 above that I have been using, and the zip file I offered that is comprised of a roast log (a saved roast data set) and the alarm file that I used to roast that batch. So you just have to load the roast as a background, import ("open") the alarm file, gain control over the Hottop with Artisan and start the auto mode.

And don't fret about just learning. I have been home roasting for just over 15 years and just learned a lot of this in the last 6 months or so. Rao's book added to it, but having the proper tools (the KN-8828B-2K+ and Artisan) gave me the ability to move forward. When you stop learning about roasting it is time to give it up and buy commercial roasted coffee.

But I have always been a visual learner. As a teenager I watched a neighbor (a pro auto mechanic) rebuild a carburetor and that was all I needed to be able to do it myself. So having the graphing of Artisan really was a plus. Add the control and I was off to the races.

Now if it was just that easy with everything I would buy every video of Paul Butterfield I could find!

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
Randy G
Alan,
There are some alarms that take place at START and others after the TP. But I will look, and of course, feel free to modify the alarms any way you like for you own use!

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
Charbucks
I don't know what I am doing wrong at this point. Somehow, the ET and BT are reversed on my artisan setup. Not sure how to fix this.
Also Randy, Can you brief me on the use of the fan and its effects? Are we supposed to run the fan in the beginning at 25, then step it up after DE?

All my roasts are going long and the roasting seems very uneven.

Randy, I think you should do some instructional Youtubes on roasting with the HT and Artisan. There's not much out there right now.
 
Randy G
When you say the BT and ET are reversed, are the temperatures actually wrong? There is a choice in the menu's (somewhere) to reverse them). If you mean that BT is on top in one and in the bottom of the other, there's nothing you can do about that.

If you run in Artisan control mode and load the alarms I put in the file, it takes care of heat and fan speed, so you can watch what I am doing and go from there. Don't worry too much about the fan. I leave it off most of the way until just before 1st. I turn it up later in the roast to extend the development time.

The problem with sharing Alarm programs and fan speeds and such its that there are enough variables (line voltage,, filter age, heating element variances, bean density, humidity, etc., etc.

That was why I posted that Alarm file. It gives you a good starting point.

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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ajf
Randy,

You misunderstood me. I am aware that the "FROM" column specifies when to start looking for an alarm condition, but alarm 14 has the "ACTION" column set to START, with a description of 60. As "START" is adjacent to "Slider Fan" in the Combo Box, and the graph has already been started, and you adjust the fan and the power at the same points, and the comment is "60"; it seems reasonable that the action should be "Slider Fan".

Charbucks,

From the graph you posted earlier, BT and ET seem to be configured correctly.

I agree that you seem to have very long roasts, but you are charging at a very low temperature. If you adjust the charge temperature upwards, (I use 340 - 350 as reported by the bean probe), your roast times will decrease, and the quality of the roast should increase. (See Rao's 1st commandment. "Thou Shalt Apply Adequate Energy at the Beginning of a Roast")

Alan
There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
 
Randy G
Alan,
You are right. I know exactly how that happened! I use my scroll wheel a LOT and if you scroll while hovering over a parameter cell it changes the parameter without first selecting that cell. Thank you for the clarification. I will change it momentarily.

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
Charbucks
ajf wrote:


Charbucks,

From the graph you posted earlier, BT and ET seem to be configured correctly.

I agree that you seem to have very long roasts, but you are charging at a very low temperature. If you adjust the charge temperature upwards, (I use 340 - 350 as reported by the bean probe), your roast times will decrease, and the quality of the roast should increase. (See Rao's 1st commandment. "Thou Shalt Apply Adequate Energy at the Beginning of a Roast")

Alan


Randy, sorry if I am not clear. Yes in the pic I sent you it was working. I fired up artisan this morning to do a roast, and the ET and BT temp in artisan are reversed. When the ET on the HT is reading 335 and the BT on the HT is reading 300, the artisan reads BT 335 and ET of 300. It's screwing up all the auto labels and the charge etc aren't being registered properly. Not sure how I did that. I went through the initial config and I can't figure out how to reverse.

Also how do you get the fan and heater settings to plot out on your roasts?

Can you tell me what the purpose of the fan is and when it should be used? Is it used to push smoke out before FC or is it used to even the temp of the roaster or slow its ROR in the ET? Whats the rule of thumb on its usage?
 
Randy G
To switch ET and BT, I think it is:
Go to the menu item:
TOOLS/ EXTRAS
On the "HUD" tab check the "ET<<>>BT" box.
(or if it is checked, uncheck it)
Took me a long time to find that.

The fan, IMO, has two functions:
1 - to clear the smoke, oils, and moisture from the beans and the roaster.
2 - as a fine adjust to the ET as well as lowering the ET more quickly than by adjustment of the heating % alone.

Early on I use the fan for #1
Later it is very handy to control the ROR from 1st onward.

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
alext
What a great little machine! I got a chance to do my first roasts on the Hottop and I am very impressed with it.

With storm clouds on the horizon I knew I did not have much time, so I decided to just run it in auto mode to get a feel for what it does (as the manual suggest iirc).

I choose a Colombian as my sacrificial first roast and just let the HT do its thing while I watched – and it’s a great view of the coffee roasting process. The front window gives a great view of what’s going on visually, it’s easy to smell what's going on too and then the temperature probes give you the chemical view I guess.

On the Freshroast I typically roasted till 1C and then waited about another 2 mins (but before 2c). On the HT, I hit 1C about 13M in, waited till 1C ended and figured that the HT would be slower from 1c to 2c so I just watched carefully after I hit the 1c+2min mark but I knew it was going too far so I hit the eject just as 2c started and continued in the cooling tray for a moment which surprised me – actually pretty exciting. Bean weight loss was 18% (stated with 225g).

It is so much easier to hear 1C start to finish with the HT that my timing was off compared to what I am used to with the Freshroast. Anyway, these beans are a bit too dark for me. I’ll try them but plan on giving them away.

Second roast was more of an adventure. It was just beginning to rain but I was pretending that it was not. I am sure HT was designed for all weather conditions, so what could go wrong? lol

Helpfully the HT reminded me to clean the chaff, which the wind picked up as soon as I removed it and stuck to everything including me since it was a little damp from the rain I was in denial about.

I let the HT preheat to about 150c (hotter next time?) before adding the Rwandan beans I have been drinking for the last few weeks for my first good roast since I am now a HT expert!

I knew from the first batch that I needed to adjust my timing a bit because I wanted to reach something between city to city+ roast levels. After 1C ended I watched the beans, smell, BT and time. Just at 1C+2M I was at 190C and eject. Beans look the right color and bean weight loss was 14% (stated with 225g) which I reckon is about right.

Water was collecting on the porous sunshade I was under and started to drip down my back so I figure it was time to admit reality and I dragged everything inside and the rain really stated.

Awesome machine. I love it and look forward to really learning about it and Artisan.
 
Charbucks
Randy, yes checking the ET<>BT fixed that issue, thank you! So I just did a roast that is a little better but still not great. I am finding that my beans are unevenly roasted and lack the flavor they had prior to me using the P computer in my roaster. My DT is higher on this road. Charged at 355F, did 100% heat 10% fan until about FC at 347 and 8:04 into the roast. I was trying to get to SC fairly quickly as I saw the roast dragging out a bit, so I played with the heat and fan a bit. One thing I did notice is that Artisan dropped the heat without me telling it to, I at times was fighting with the software. Is it possible I have it following an alarm file or something? Where do I check that. I still don't love the roast I did, although it's an improvement. Im not yet there. Any tricks to getting a more even roast?
Charbucks attached the following image:
summatra_2nd_try.png
 
Randy G
You "development time" (from the beginning of 1st to the drop is too long. Scott Rao recommends that it be 20-25%. I just did a roast which was 23% and has been excellent for espresso. 2½ minutes for first is a lot longer than I experience.

Are you using the alarm file I posted. I am by no means a roasting expert, but that set of alarms, while not the end-all-of-all, but it should work as a very good start.

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
Charbucks
I realized I blew through it and went long. Any advice on what I can do to shorten that? Should I continue at 100% power through 1c to shorten that time? or lessen the fan? I don't think I went past 50% fan during the roast.

Any idea why the beans are roasting so unevenly since I upgraded the unit?
Sorry to be such a noob but this used to be much easier before I had so much info!
 
Randy G
1 ) Please download this, unpack it, and use the alarm file. http://www.frcndi...5files.zip
It also contains the roast file that you can use as a template/background for your roast. I do not start the logging until I am just about to charge the roaster. The alarm file included controls the heat and the fan. It will also auto-eject, but you can get into the file once loaded into Artisan and change that, as well as the start temperature. I charge at about 350 or so. You keep asking about the fan speed and the heat setting and ALL THAT I AM DOING WITH THAT AT THE CURRENT TIME IS RIGHT IN THE ALARM FILE!!!

2) I can think of three factors that can cause an uneven roast in this situation:
a - trying to roast too much coffee at once
b - the coffee itself.
c - some odd set of controls that is allowing the drier beans to roast differently form some that have more moisture.

Roast some single origin beans until you get a handle on all of this. If it keeps up contact me "at work" and we will try to figure it out.

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
dcoplan
Hi gang - just finished setting up my HT-8828B with a pair of TC's, got it hooked up to Artisan on my Mac, and could not be more thrilled with this new level of control. But I have a few questions and a few issues.

1. ET reads higher than BT by approx. 25F during preheat. I'm assuming this is normal but just want to make sure. I know heat rises but it's such a small space that can't be it? ET proximity to the heating element? Just want to make sure this is ok.

2. See attached image of my very first test roast. Never mind the quality of the roast for now, I'm just trying to figure out why...

a) My time is way off. It's showing the TP at -16 minutes and Charge (auto Charge) after FC (time travel back in time -4:50).

b) My graphics are all sitting on top of each other. How do I get these spread out so I can read everything clearly?

c) Alarm file attached. The heater did what it was supposed to automatically but the fan never did. I had to control it manually.

3. Is Artisan supposed to recognize the Drop automatically or I need to manually click that event and eject on the control board?

So first step for me is just getting everything set up properly. I'm obviously off on something. I set this up using Barrie Fairley's guide and read through it a few times to make sure I was doing everything right.

Much appreciation for any guidance!

Dan

PS - I read earlier in this thread about cooling down the roaster. I use a small fan and just blow air at it. 10 minutes - done. I've also found my little $20 Stanley shop vac from Walmart invaluable in cleaning up all the chaff, using the narrow attachment to get into the guts of the roaster.
dcoplan attached the following file:
default_alarms_copyalrm.zip [459Bytes / 92 Downloads]
dcoplan attached the following image:
artisantest1.jpg
 
dcoplan
One more question...when people refer to temperatures without specifying BT or ET, what are they generally referring to? Like when discussing the temp at which you charge the roaster. I assume ET but...
HT mod for Artisan, Sonofresco 1kg, Mill City 1kg on the way...Brewing Devices: Pretty much every manual device you can think of!
 
turtle
dcoplan wrote:

One more question...when people refer to temperatures without specifying BT or ET, what are they generally referring to? Like when discussing the temp at which you charge the roaster. I assume ET but...


Everything is about bean temperature.

.
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee"

Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1
Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+
Roaster 3: Behmor 1600 +
Grinders: Modified Super Jolly - Forte BG (x3)
Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum
Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials)
Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto
Vacuum: Cona - Bodum
Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia
 
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