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snwcmpr
10/18/2019 2:37 PM
Eth Nat Yirg Idido roasted yesterday. I dropped some off at a friends coffee shop. In a few days he will brew it and tell me what he thinks. We believe my roasts are better than what we buy.

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10/16/2019 2:52 PM
Thank you for all you guys do.

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10/15/2019 2:02 AM
They seem to be after the shoutbox. They have been removed. I don't see anything in the forums.

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We have been hacked. A whole lot of posts that have filled up the whole forum.

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10/10/2019 4:49 AM
Honduras Royal Reserve today.

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bagging coffee ?
chimpy74
hi everyone, I was at the local markets selling my coffee today .
a guy came up to me and started talking, he told me he was a coffee guru and does a lot of roasting,
he told me it is best to roast beans , cool them and then bag them straight away as the gas needs to be kept in them to make the flavour last longer and I should not rest/de gas them for four days like I do at the moment!
this goes against what I think, and sounds strange what do you guys think ???

regards

mark
 
Koffee Kosmo
I completely agree with the coffee guru
Always
Use one way valve bags and bag freshly roasted beans straight away even warm is OK
Oxygen and humidity is your nemesis

The one way valve bag expels gas but does not allow oxygen and humidity to enter

On another tangent of this reasoning
You should not allow your beans to sit in a grinders hopper for the same reason

KK
I home roast and I like it
Blog - http://koffeekosm...gspot.com/
Bezzera Strega: Mazzer Robur Grinder: 5 Box hand grinders: Pullman Tamper Convex: (KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster: CONA Glass Rod Syphon: Pyrex Brewer:
 
http://koffeekosmo.com.au
allenb
In the past, I remember reading posts where some were recommending leaving coffee fresh out of the roaster in open air or in an unsealed bag or container long enough to thoroughly degas before going to a valve bag or mason jar. This is a great way to hurry up the staling process!

I second KK's agreement with the Guru. Another good way to store your coffee that I use and was recommended by farmroast is the trusty mason jar. You only tighten the lid enough to allow the pressure to vent but will not allow air in. They're cheap, allow easy viewing of your prized new roast and store neatly on your shelves. Some have said they sell their coffee in them and regulars return them when they come back for more. Another benefit is they're eco friendly compared to the plastic hitting the landfills.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
jkoll42
Mark

Just to be sure nothing is getting confused.... The rest/degas process of a few days is proper as it allows beans to properly develop flavor. This is a good thing. It just should be done in a positive pressure environment like others have said in a mason jar or one way bag or similar.

Cool the beans, put into a container that allows offgassing to release but not O2 to enter and rest for (typically depending on the bean) 3-4 days. If using within a week or so keep them in the container. If they are going to be sitting around longer freeze them in batches - I prefer about a week or so of beans per batch.
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3
 
Koffee Kosmo
The OP Mark has written that he is selling his roasted coffee at a local market

That being said my advise to use one way valve bags still stands
With regards to the resting degassing period
The time will differ depending on what beans have been roasted

Flavour development is no different to other products
For example - Wine
Only the time differs from days/weeks for coffee and years for wine

KK
I home roast and I like it
Blog - http://koffeekosm...gspot.com/
Bezzera Strega: Mazzer Robur Grinder: 5 Box hand grinders: Pullman Tamper Convex: (KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster: CONA Glass Rod Syphon: Pyrex Brewer:
 
http://koffeekosmo.com.au
jkoll42
Not sure how the heck I missed the very first sentence saying he was selling the beans....

In this case yes - cool and into one way bags. If economically one way bags don't work for the final market price then plain brown bags would be OK.

Also - beware of anyone approaching you and introducing themselves as a "coffee guru"
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3
 
Koffee Kosmo
jkoll42 wrote:


Also - beware of anyone approaching you and introducing themselves as a "coffee guru"


That is so true
One in a thousand may be an actual coffee guru Shock

KK
I home roast and I like it
Blog - http://koffeekosm...gspot.com/
Bezzera Strega: Mazzer Robur Grinder: 5 Box hand grinders: Pullman Tamper Convex: (KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster: CONA Glass Rod Syphon: Pyrex Brewer:
 
http://koffeekosmo.com.au
chimpy74
thanks for the advice guys much appreciated.

kind regards

mark
 
ginny
All of my beans go into mason jars but get bagged asap if I am giving them away...

echo = beware the coffee guru...


-g



rockon
 
jkoll42
One thing of note...

Everything in this thread is certainly best practice for the freshest beans. That being said unless someone is a major coffee freak even quality week old beans left in open air will taste amazing to them

-coffee guru
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3
 
Ringo
All my coffee goes into mason jars and then the freezer. They stay good and fresh until needed. I just pull them out and let them warm up before opening the jar so water does not condense on them. When I give coffee away I write on the label the best use day. I say this coffee roasted on Friday will be the best on Monday but good anytime. This coffee goes into bags right out of the roaster. I have a big roaster for personal use and only roast once every three weeks or so. Keep thinking I want to build a little 1 pounder.
All you need in life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain
 
broeker
I just read an article from the team at La Colombe which dispels the notion of freezing coffee...........

http://scrapbook....re-coffee/
 
jkoll42
broeker wrote:

I just read an article from the team at La Colombe which dispels the notion of freezing coffee...........

http://scrapbook....re-coffee/


I still hold the most stock in the blind cupping HB did regarding freezing. No speculation just blind cupping results. This is the compilation link but there were IIRC 2 separate threads that lead to this. Keep in mind that this is for espresso which is so much more sensitive to staling than drip.

http://www.home-b...eezer.html
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3
 
Ringo
I realize there is debate over freezing or not freezing but for me it works. Life is too busy to roast coffee every few days. I also like to keep a special stash of really good stuff if someone comes over. I have a commercial espresso machine I rebuilt in my coffee bar but do not run i very often, but when I do I can have fresh coffee. Some day when I retire I will maybe go back to roasting every few days.
All you need in life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain
 
MJSykes
This discussion leaves me with a few questions.

Is the degassing of CO2 from freshly roasted beans primarily (or entirely) attributable to oxidation resulting from continued exposure to oxygen?

If so, would it be desirable to slow the degassing process by limiting the beans' exposure to oxygen?

Is there a period of time after roasting when exposure to oxygen is beneficial?

Why should freshly roasted beans be stored in a positive pressure environment?

I have stored freshly roasted (and fan-cooled) beans in ziplock plastic bags with most of the air pressed out (leaving lots of room for degassing to occur without bursting open the bag). I believe this is a neutral pressure environment (i.e., about equal air pressure inside and outside the bag). Is this far from optimal?
 
Koffee Kosmo
MJSykes wrote:

This discussion leaves me with a few questions.

Is the degassing of CO2 from freshly roasted beans primarily (or entirely) attributable to oxidation resulting from continued exposure to oxygen?

If so, would it be desirable to slow the degassing process by limiting the beans' exposure to oxygen?

Is there a period of time after roasting when exposure to oxygen is beneficial?

Why should freshly roasted beans be stored in a positive pressure environment?

I have stored freshly roasted (and fan-cooled) beans in ziplock plastic bags with most of the air pressed out (leaving lots of room for degassing to occur without bursting open the bag). I believe this is a neutral pressure environment (i.e., about equal air pressure inside and outside the bag). Is this far from optimal?


Rules of thumb on coffee storage and degassing
Degas times will vary from 5 days to 14 days depending on the area the beans come from and growing conditions

Oxygen will speed the degas process but will shorten the length of time its best time to drink
Moisture absorption is another culprit and will start the degradation process
In my observations - Moisture absorbtion prevents good creama formation as well

The reason for a timely degas and settle in period is to have the coffee oils develop inside the beans

It's best to use a container / bag fitted with a one way valve

KK
I home roast and I like it
Blog - http://koffeekosm...gspot.com/
Bezzera Strega: Mazzer Robur Grinder: 5 Box hand grinders: Pullman Tamper Convex: (KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster: CONA Glass Rod Syphon: Pyrex Brewer:
 
http://koffeekosmo.com.au
MJSykes
Koffee Kosmo wrote:

Rules of thumb on coffee storage and degassing
Degas times will vary from 5 days to 14 days depending on the area the beans come from and growing conditions

Oxygen will speed the degas process but will shorten the length of time its best time to drink....

The reason for a timely degas and settle in period is to have the coffee oils develop inside the beans

It's best to use a container / bag fitted with a one way valve

KK


Your response implies that degassing can occur in the absence of oxygen. Do you know this to be true?

You seem to say the reason to rest/degass beans for several days is to allow the coffee oils to "develop"? What does that mean?

I understand that a one way valve would prevent an airtight "positive pressure" container from bursting. When using a container that will not burst open, what purpose would a one-way valve serve? Is exposure to CO2 harmful to coffee beans?
 
Koffee Kosmo
Obviously there is some oxygen left in the bag when the beans are poured in and the bag sealed

Regarding time to allow coffee oils to develop

Example
It's no different to cooking a steak, you let it rest after cooking to develop its most desired state for eating

It just takes more time for coffee beans because beans are hard but still porous - and the wicking affect takes longer

Have you ever seen coffee beans develop a sheen of oil on the outside, a week or more later - that's the wicking affect in action

As I noted above - coffee beans are porous so a combination of access CO2 plus moisture absorbtion is detrimental to the degas - resting period

This information has been gained from trial and error and what actualy tastes best
I am sure there is a more scientific explanation but all I can offer is a laymans explanation

KK
I home roast and I like it
Blog - http://koffeekosm...gspot.com/
Bezzera Strega: Mazzer Robur Grinder: 5 Box hand grinders: Pullman Tamper Convex: (KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster: CONA Glass Rod Syphon: Pyrex Brewer:
 
http://koffeekosmo.com.au
MJSykes
Koffee Kosmo wrote:

Obviously there is some oxygen left in the bag when the beans are poured in and the bag sealed

Regarding time to allow coffee oils to develop

Example
It's no different to cooking a steak, you let it rest after cooking to develop its most desired state for eating

It just takes more time for coffee beans because beans are hard but still porous - and the wicking affect takes longer

Have you ever seen coffee beans develop a sheen of oil on the outside, a week or more later - that's the wicking affect in action

As I noted above - coffee beans are porous so a combination of access CO2 plus moisture absorbtion is detrimental to the degas - resting period

This information has been gained from trial and error and what actualy tastes best
I am sure there is a more scientific explanation but all I can offer is a laymans explanation

KK


Steak is rested after cooking to allow moisture to be reabsorbed into the muscle fibers. I do not believe roasted coffee beans benefit from water absorption.

This is the first time I've read the claim that CO2 exposure is detrimental during resting/degassing. It surprises me because I've seen containers designed to hold freshly roasted coffee beans that have a one-way valve on the top (and some roasters recommend using mason jars with a loose lid). Since CO2 is denser than air, these storage methods would result in the degassing beans being bathed in CO2.

I roast in small amounts which usually do not last more than week, but I may have noticed a small increase in oiliness on occasion. I can't say that I noticed a subsequent improvement in flavor, however. Perhaps this is because I thought it was a sign the beans were getting old rather than getting good. Expectation influences perception.

Do some roasters wait for medium-roasted beans to become oily before using them?
Edited by MJSykes on 04/20/2015 7:23 PM
 
Ringo
I only roast light so my beans almost never get oil. I believe oxygen is the main enemy when you want to preserve the flavor of coffee. CO 2 is better for coffee than oxygen, but I do not think you want it under presure. I believe the oil outside the beans is a direct relation to the roast darkness so the longer it rest the oiler it will get. So if it's dark roasted it's going to get oily before it's ready to drink. I also believe dark roasted beans get old faster than light roast because the coffee oils are exposed to the air. I run boilers for my day job and co 2 is a big problem with steam. When you condense co2 back to a liquid you get a carbonic reaction that makes an acid, I would guess the reaction has some effect on coffee flavor. Maybe you need some co2 for flavor but not too much.
All you need in life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain
 
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