topbanner.gif
Login
Username

Password




Not a member yet?
Click here to register.

Forgotten your password?
Request a new one here.
Shoutbox
You must login to post a message.

daniboy503
Offline
· 04/05/2020 10:37 PM
i need wiring modification for westbend poppery I that has AC fan with rotary dimmer and AC fan speed control switches Thank you!

allenb
OfflineAdmin
· 04/02/2020 4:50 AM
Morning Ed, I haven't done any green coffee hoarding yet but am hoping the supplies don't end up like the toilet paper isles!

snwcmpr
Offline
· 03/31/2020 2:53 PM
Hey Ed. Thanks. roar

homeroaster
Offline
· 03/31/2020 11:21 AM
Hey quarantined home roasters! I hope you have great coffee! If they have a run on coffee, I hope you're set with your great home roast! Find me on Facebook! Ed Needham

snwcmpr
Offline
· 03/25/2020 11:49 AM
New Rochelle in the news. I think of you every time I hear it. ... Please stay safe.

Users Online
Guests Online: 3

Members Online: 1
greencardigan

Total Members: 6,473
Newest Member: benhome
In Memory Of Ginny
Donations

Latest Donations
Anonymous - 5.00
Anonymous - 5.00
renatoa - 2.00
JitterzZ - 2.01
renatoa - 2.00

View Thread

Who is here? 1 guest(s)
 Print Thread
All-in-One that ROASTS, grinds and brews?!
DavidG
We'll have to keep an eye on this project, for sure:

http://bonaverde.com
http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/12/help...a-reality/
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/j...ee-machine

Initial thoughts....
1. What about resting the roast?
2. If the roaster is good, then I'll let the roast rest and skip the grind and brew. If the roaster isn't good, then I'll skip it all.
3. How much control does the roaster give the owner?
4. What's the capacity? Only a cup at a time?

From the website:
"After 2 years of burning beans we found the perfect temperature to time relation and finally perfected the art of roasting in this small machine. We use a rotary system within a high-alloyed stainless steel container and an air vent system that absorbs the smoke and only unleashes the scent of freshly roasted coffee beans."

Fixed profile? Flexible?

Check out the video at 2:05 -- looks a lot like a KKTO-style agitation chamber and sweep arm.

Cheers,
David
europiccola | yama + coryrod | chemex | AP | clever
wbp1 | wepp1 | bm/hg | co hybrid (still coming soon...)
 
tamarian
I've seen similar projects before and it always struck me as over-engineered gimmicks. Coffee does not taste great minutes after roasting, and while fresh coffee is great, too fresh is not. So your initial thoughts #1 is right on target ThumbsUp
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
http://english.varietalcafe.com
jkoll42
It's something to skip. The whole idea shows they don't really understand coffee. As said above there is no rest so it's not going to be at best flavor. Second, they talk about a 3 minute roast time because the bean quantity is small. That's not how proper roasting works. Third (and it's possible this is more of a translation issue) they talk about a fine powder out of the grinder. That's not how I would describe anything close to an ideal grind for drip.

I could go on...
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3
 
JackH
I know it is a prototype but it does look like the KKTO with the stirring arms. I also see a large heating element at the top.

The large alligator clips connected to the heating element look interesting....zap The perforations at the bottom might be for air flow and chaff removal? Lots of Thermocouples in the prototype.

The amount of beans he used looks like small quantity (A guess..maybe 30g), single cup. Freshly roasted coffee really tastes too "wild" to me. I always wait at least 48 hours to rest.
Edited by JackH on 11/12/2013 3:58 PM
 
ginny
I taste ALL of my beans right away to see give me a benchmark.

My Solis 5K is grinder/brewer but I would no want a roaster/grinder/brewer - NEVER.

ginny
 
coffeeroastersclub
Its a neat gizmo, but like others here have said it overlooks the necessary degas/resting period needed for flavor development. Also alot of fluff concerning its impact on the "17 steps from farmer to cup" thing.

What I would like to see is a gizmo that will do something to totally eliminate the resting period. Incorporate that into a machine like this and maybe they will have something.

So the question is posed: How can that be done? After roasting an intense vacuum to draw out gases sequenced with an intense pressure of air or a compent thereof to develop flavors, back and forth, etc. within a certain amount of minutes not to exceed X amount of time soas to have a machine that can go from green bean to a great cup in say 30 minutes time? (just shooting crap around here to provoke a possible discussion)

coffee drink

Len
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
 
http://www.coffeeroastersclub.com
eric
One cannot dismiss this totally out of hand. Lots of PR fluff but they seem to know, or at least someone there knows how to cup...

The 4 min roast is a worry, even the commodity roasters went away from that to 8 min roasts in the early nineties - every roast is going to be a melange and so likely only a select few beans are going to work.

Looks like KKTO except that much more radiative than convective heating... so it is different. If I was them I would not give the game away at this point as they are still 1 year from release. This is probably a vid of one of their 135 prototypes that did not work. OK for PR but useless to their competition.

As for no rest one can get that by no microprofile. A small batch with excess and uniform heat so there is no temp cycling of the beans during the roast. My experience is that the longer the microprofile the longer the rest. A lightly loaded popper will grind straight into the cup just fine but will only keep for a few days max. My normal roasts have much longer microprofile and need a week of rest but then they are still going strong at 3 weeks. This is all in the physical design of the roaster and SFA seems to be written about it.
Eric
 
jkoll42

Quote

coffeeroastersclub wrote:

So the question is posed: How can that be done? After roasting an intense vacuum to draw out gases sequenced with an intense pressure of air or a compent thereof to develop flavors, back and forth, etc. within a certain amount of minutes not to exceed X amount of time soas to have a machine that can go from green bean to a great cup in say 30 minutes time? (just shooting crap around here to provoke a possible discussion)

coffee drink

Len


Len - Ok, now we are on to something interesting. Is the taste improvement from resting due to simply off gassing of co2, oxidation that initially improves flavor and eventually destroys flavor or some other chemical process entirely. Someone here has to have something that can draw a very strong vacuum and hold it that would test if you could accelerate rest... somebody, anybody??? It would be a very interesting test.

Eric - Not sure if I agree that smaller loads don't need rest. If a roaster is properly designed it will uniformly apply heat to the beans no matter what load it is designed for. I have certainly see different rest requirements based on origin and different beans/roast levels will show more or less improvement with rest. Back in the day my air popper needed the same rest as my 3# (current load) machine.
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3
 
jkoll42
Thanks to Mark Prince @coffeegeek for a link to a similar machine from years ago
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3
 
coffeeroastersclub

Quote



Len - Ok, now we are on to something interesting. Is the taste improvement from resting due to simply off gassing of co2, oxidation that initially improves flavor and eventually destroys flavor or some other chemical process entirely. Someone here has to have something that can draw a very strong vacuum and hold it that would test if you could accelerate rest... somebody, anybody??? It would be a very interesting test.

Eric - Not sure if I agree that smaller loads don't need rest. If a roaster is properly designed it will uniformly apply heat to the beans no matter what load it is designed for. I have certainly see different rest requirements based on origin and different beans/roast levels will show more or less improvement with rest. Back in the day my air popper needed the same rest as my 3# (current load) machine.


Someone that has an organic chemistry degree/background would be of great help. I may do a patent search on the topic if I find some time.

Len
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
 
http://www.coffeeroastersclub.com
allenb

Quote

jkoll42 wrote:

Thanks to Mark Prince @coffeegeek for a link to a similar machine from years ago


Thanks for posting this Jon. The video shows one of the Unimax all in one machines from the mid to late 90's. They were almost identical to what I'm seeing in the Bonaverde and the higher capacity Unimax 425si model incorporated a very powerful and effective conical burr grinder as well. The Unimax utilized the same type of slow speed stirring arms and for heat utilized a tubular radiant element suspended over the coffee. I was sent one of the 425's in 98 or 99 to test out and I was very surprised by the quality of the brew for a coffee straight out of the roaster. The Unimax took somewhere between 6 and 8 minutes for a roast but I never experienced any astringency or grassy/underdeveloped notes.

I really like Bonaverde's claim of theirs being the first ever, all in one roaster, grinder, brewer!

Here's some posts from the past about the Unimax. The end of the first post talks about the 425si.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!top...gpJeEcHyuI

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
coffeeroastersclub

Quote

allenb wrote:

Quote

jkoll42 wrote:

Thanks to Mark Prince @coffeegeek for a link to a similar machine from years ago


Thanks for posting this Jon. The video shows one of the Unimax all in one machines from the mid to late 90's. They were almost identical to what I'm seeing in the Bonaverde and the higher capacity Unimax 425si model incorporated a very powerful and effective conical burr grinder as well. The Unimax utilized the same type of slow speed stirring arms and for heat utilized a tubular radiant element suspended over the coffee. I was sent one of the 425's in 98 or 99 to test out and I was very surprised by the quality of the brew for a coffee straight out of the roaster. The Unimax took somewhere between 6 and 8 minutes for a roast but I never experienced any astringency or grassy/underdeveloped notes.

I really like Bonaverde's claim of theirs being the first ever, all in one roaster, grinder, brewer!

Here's some posts from the past about the Unimax. The end of the first post talks about the 425si.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!top...gpJeEcHyuI

Allen


All you need to do is repackage an old forgotten product and advertise it with a foreign accent and FLUFF FLUFF FLUFF and PRESTO! NEW IDEA NEW PRODUCT!

Shock Grin

Len
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
 
http://www.coffeeroastersclub.com
Airhan
This is the keurig of coffee roasting, take away all the skill and romanticism involved with ROASTING and brewing and have a machine do it.

Just my take on the roast-grind-brew-coffee-machine.
Aaron
"Grind it like it did you some great injustice!"D.L.Clark
"Not all who wander are lost."J.R.R. Tolkien
 
Airhan
On the topic of resting the beans, it seems that you can choose when to start the different processes (roasting, grinding, and brewing). So you you could roast one morning, let the beans fall in to the next chamber and then wait a day. the next morning you would have beans that rested for 24 hours and are ready to grind and brew, then you roast the next days batch.
Aaron
"Grind it like it did you some great injustice!"D.L.Clark
"Not all who wander are lost."J.R.R. Tolkien
 
Randy G

Quote

eric wrote:The 4 min roast is a worry

Might that be the understatement of the week? A four minute roast, no rest time, just cool, grind, and into the cup? No thank you.

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
eric
Well the project is already over double funded! Good marketing effort.

Given it's a regurgitation of previous product, no wonder there is no patent mentioned.

Quote

jkoll42 wrote:

Len - Ok, now we are on to something interesting. Is the taste improvement from resting due to simply off gassing of co2, oxidation that initially improves flavor and eventually destroys flavor or some other chemical process entirely. Someone here has to have something that can draw a very strong vacuum and hold it that would test if you could accelerate rest... somebody, anybody??? It would be a very interesting test.

Eric - Not sure if I agree that smaller loads don't need rest. If a roaster is properly designed it will uniformly apply heat to the beans no matter what load it is designed for. I have certainly see different rest requirements based on origin and different beans/roast levels will show more or less improvement with rest. Back in the day my air popper needed the same rest as my 3# (current load) machine.


My suggestions is not smaller loads per se, but smaller loads in a given roaster so more air, lower ET, then less rest in drum and air roasters. Anyone else noticed a correlation? My observation across a few roasters. Roasters cannot heat all the beans uniformly all the time, there will always be beans heating from usually mostly convection then returning to a bean mass and conducting some of the heat to others, or at least having their rate of rise drop to zero. The depth and speed of this cycling seems to affect rest times and flavour features - a work in progress. Once the macro profile is the same then differences still exist in the micro profile and micro environment that will differentiate roasters. I was always able to get immediately drinkable espresso beans from my popper with 1/3 of max batch size (320/3 = ~110g) - the beans were moving very fast through the whole roast. I am bringing my PIDed popper out of mothballs this weekend to donate to a good cause - incrementing the home roasting community +1. Will get another sample point before it leaves.

On outgassing, only one of the factors in resting, IMHO. Perhaps a better test than the high vacuum, as there is always the problem that bringing the beans back into air sucks in O2 and rapidly stales the beans: anyone keep a liquid N2 dewar in their garage? Seems an ideal source of dry N2, just connect the breather tube to the top of a canister of coffee and vent from the bottom. I expect it will extract the CO2 quite quickly, perhaps speed up resting up to three fold? My guess.
Eric
 
jedovaty
Like this?

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpb3Hu8F7u8[/video]
 
az erik
Roast, then grind (let rest here) for a minute to 5, and you have nearly the same staleness as ground 2 day rested coffee. I'e used that when running out of coffee and needing to make some. Not sure where I found that tip but someone had said that it'll degass quicker once ground.

another note, I never noticed the open flame on the 'roaster/brew' on the movie, and the fact he steamed milk in less than 2 seconds! 2! TWO bang! haha
 
Jump to Forum:

Similar Threads

Thread Forum Replies Last Post
90% of my roasts, even light City roasts, have an underlying burnt/acrid taste. What gives?! Roasting Coffee 23 03/23/2020 2:49 AM
Hottop Cooling Between Roasts HotTop Roaster 7 03/22/2020 10:39 AM
First Roasts.. Roasting Coffee 7 08/08/2018 12:55 AM
TC4 temperatures in Artisan artificially high with back to back roasts Dataloggers/Controllers/Rate of Rise Meters 6 04/29/2018 8:08 PM
Hottop KN-8828B-2K+ First Roasts HotTop Roaster 14 12/29/2016 8:24 AM
Homeroasters Association Logo, and all Content, Images, and Icons © 2005-2016 Homeroasters Association - Logos are the property of their respective owners.
Powered by PHP-Fusion copyright © 2002 - 2020 by Nick Jones.
Released as free software without warranties under GNU Affero GPL v3.
Designed with by NetriX