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NewBean
06/12/2019 3:57 PM
Just waiting on my TC4 shipment then it's roasting time

snwcmpr
06/03/2019 11:37 AM
I rarely purchase roasted coffee. I just ordered 4 bags from Mountain Air Roaster.

tm97
05/30/2019 12:34 PM
Hi, I use a wok with a glass lid for roasting. shaking the wok is a good exercise, actually.

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morning

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PID'ed Gas-fired fluid bed roaster
tamarian
We have ignition. First, I've placed the blower sideways with an elbow, just to lower the torch, and increase the distance from igniter. That did not improve ignition, the blower has to be off for ignition to take place. I then read FreshBeans build, and copied parts of his ignition assemble. I placed the torch inside a small pipe to protect it from the blower's air flow. I also drilled some holes into that small pipe to allow some air for combustion. The result is reliable ignition regardless of blower, even at max airflow.

forum.homeroasters.org/forum/attachments/img-20130917-wa0000.jpg

With this change, I now have at least 24" between torch and perforated plate.
tamarian attached the following image:
img-20130917-wa0000.jpg

Edited by tamarian on 09/17/2013 7:43 AM
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
http://english.varietalcafe.com
JETROASTER
Well done! Looking forward to some video. -Scott
 
allenb
Wow, you're very good at seeing a roadblock, determining a workaround and implementing it in a very short time frame! This is a great alteration and should give you good flame stability in any situation.

Looking forward to video when it's in operation down the road!

BTW, I think it 's great that you are blazing a new trail with your arduino based ignition and safety controls. This will be a big improvement in gas fired homeroasting safety for folks not wanting to spend a fortune on industrial burner safety devices.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
tamarian
Thanks Scott and Allen. I've assembled it and was ready to load up some beans and shoot a video. But while pre-heating, smoke started coming out of the viewing window of the heating chamber at 180C. This could be due to the aluminum tape I had wrapped around the glass to block external light, or the RTV silicon sealing the glass. Some more work to do before this baby gets to work.
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
http://english.varietalcafe.com
tiopaeng
I can't wait to see the video. There's a lot of research and development and trials and error with this build but we're all excited and patiently waiting. Great job and thanks for sharing this with us.

Tiopaeng
 
tamarian
Thanks Tiopaeng and everyone for the encouragement. I could not have done it without all the support and shared knowledge of you folks of Home Roasters.

Notice the "have done it" part :) Video uploading!
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
http://english.varietalcafe.com
tamarian
Success. I've run two tests today using past crop beans that were saved for such tests.

First run was bad. I roasted 700 grams to Full City in 10 minutes, but it did not follow a smooth curve. The valve was either on or off. Here's what it looked like:

forum.homeroasters.org/forum/attachments/test.png

Not very smooth and not a steady Rate of Rise (ROR).

But I remembered that I have tuned the valve driver for 4 Bar, and now I'm just under 2 bar. So I have re-tuned the driver and the PID and made a second test, and it went perfectly. Alas, Artisan crashed on me while taking the video. But monitoring the PID, PV and SV temps where identical all the way to Full City.

Will further fine-tune and adjust pressure, but it is ready for some of the good beans to roast.

Since I have placed the torch much lower, the glass window can no longer detect the flame string enough for the sensor, so I may re-drill it below, or find a workaround for it. Also having the torch and igniter inside an internal pipe will further complicate things.

But enjoy the video:

tamarian attached the following image:
test.png

Edited by tamarian on 09/18/2013 5:35 AM
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
http://english.varietalcafe.com
JETROASTER
Nice work! You have proof of concept. From here on in it's tweaks and adjustments. Well done. Cheers, -Scott
(thanks for the vid)
 
tiopaeng
Great Job, a Success! just a little tweaking and you'll be roasting.

Thanks
Tiopaeng
 
tamarian
Test #3

Using a multimeter, I fine tuned the valve driver max current is close to the valve's max current (180ma). Fixed an error in the fourth ramp segment, which resulted in the hump after first crack in the previous test (photo a couple of posts above).

The result is a smooth BT curve, and during the roast PV and SV were so close, rarely above 1 degree difference, which is a lot closer than with electric element. The only exception is in the drying phase, after recovery, which is expected due to the huge drop and rise.

Here's a graph from Artisan:
forum.homeroasters.org/forum/attachments/gas_2.png

My PID is set to max at 60%, and it still a bit powerful for 750 grams. I'll gradually reduce pressure to 1 bar, from 1.5 bar and gradually raise PID max to 90%, so the control is more refined and suitable for small and large batches, 200 grams to 1 Kg, as was the case with the electric element.

Due to the new elbow design, I may just place the electric element in the horizontal pipe, and no longer need to replace elements, just use one or the other, but no hurry on that part since gas seem to work fine, and the electric element seem a luxury. But since I already have all the parts, wiring and old PID, I'll eventually get to it.

I have another video uploading with close ups of the flame sensor, sampling trier and dump chute.
tamarian attached the following image:
gas_2.png

Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
http://english.varietalcafe.com
tamarian
And here's the video. I tried to get a closer look at the flame sensor. Also a demo of the sample trier, but since I was holding my phone/camera, I couldn't raise the jar to catch all the beans. At the end, you'll see my dump mechanism. May need some adjustment by raising the cooling tray, since my roast chamber is a bit higher than before. Enjoy:


Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
http://english.varietalcafe.com
JETROASTER
I am continually amazed at what shows up on HRO!! Nicely done.
Is the trier spring-loaded or gravity?
As you move forward, you'll find that almost any obstruction of your exhaust system during the dump cycle will expedite the process.
Very nice! -Scott
 
tamarian
freshbeans wrote:

I am continually amazed at what shows up on HRO!! Nicely done.
Is the trier spring-loaded or gravity?
As you move forward, you'll find that almost any obstruction of your exhaust system during the dump cycle will expedite the process.
Very nice! -Scott


Thanks Scott! The trier just uses gravity. Was planning on making it spring loaded, but it worked quite well without.

You'll notice at the end of the dump the blower was reduced. I also use a small plate that I slide into RC to catch the downward heading beans and redirect them out, but was hard to use while taking video.
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
http://english.varietalcafe.com
allenb
This is very impressive! BTW, you've got the first affordable, PID controlled gas fired fluidbed that I know of.

When you've got things where you want them and you're real comfortable with the new setup be sure and shoot another video.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
allenb
I forgot to mention that in the video it looks like ET is now hunting a bit. Did you make the changes in max control output and changes to gas pressure you mentioned earlier?

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
tamarian
allenb wrote:

This is very impressive! BTW, you've got the first affordable, PID controlled gas fired fluidbed that I know of.

When you've got things where you want them and you're real comfortable with the new setup be


And you've got the first affordable PID controlled gas fired drum that I know of :)
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
http://english.varietalcafe.com
tamarian
allenb wrote:

I forgot to mention that in the video it looks like ET is now hunting a bit. Did you make the changes in max control output and changes to gas pressure you mentioned earlier?

Allen


Yes, but seems like I need to reduce the pressure further to 1 bar from 1.5. In addition, I need to twist the collar a bit to better position the ET TC threaded into that collar. Once Artisan monitor was shut off, it seem to have smoothed the ET curve a bit, this is with default setting. But BT curve was smooth throughout the roast. Doesn't bother me, as it is not that far from what it did with electric element.
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
http://english.varietalcafe.com
tamarian
Couldn't resist another roast after turning regulator down to 1 bar. This is with 750 grams El Salvador Burbon. Saved profile as a screenshot so no smoothing/filtering takes place. I left it for 4 minutes on preheating at 125 to see how it behaves without beans. Once the beans were added, Fuji was on 25% power or less.

forum.homeroasters.org/forum/attachments/screen.png

Next would be with 0.75 bar, and with decent beans that I may cup. So far all stale beans, which will be used to season a grinder coming my way soon.
tamarian attached the following image:
screen.png

Edited by tamarian on 09/20/2013 8:35 AM
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
http://english.varietalcafe.com
tamarian
Today was quite productive. My planned tuning and pressure adjustment was limited by my 16 bar gauges, which offered very little feedback. So I located 2 bar gauges and combined with the multimeter re-did the whole driver tune up. My assumption that pressure changes needs retuning the driver were wrong. The drive tune up is only current based. A multimeter is essential, as the values found for min and max are way off from the documentation. Calibrating while running the roaster is necessary as well, while looking at the flame and pressure gauges and multimeter at the same time. It was quite tedious since some of the clockwise and counter clockwise instructions were mixed up, so the multimeter and pressure gauges came in handy.

Test roast following the adjustments was flawless. I have not seen this level of control and precision with my PID while on electric element. PV and SV where less than 1 degree apart during the entire roast (except the charge/recovery stage).

First, here it is idling after pre-heating:
forum.homeroasters.org/forum/attachments/idle.png

And the test roast screenshot:
forum.homeroasters.org/forum/attachments/scrgas.png

Same via artisan:
forum.homeroasters.org/forum/attachments/as-tanzaniasample21sep2013small.png

Note that the PID was set for 160C at 4 minutes and 199 at 8 minutes.
tamarian attached the following images:
idle.png scrgas.png as-tanzaniasample21sep2013small.png

Edited by tamarian on 09/21/2013 8:42 AM
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
http://english.varietalcafe.com
tamarian
Next up was the flame sensor. Since the torch and igniter were moved way down from initial build, the flame sensor had a hard time detecting the flame. I've adjusted the value in the Arduino sketch to be more sensitive, but still wasn't reliable. I've remove the glass cup, and replaced it with a shot glass where the bottom of the glass goes inside the pipe by an inch. Then placed a small mirror to reflect the flame and igniter on the flame sensor. This worked like a charm. Finally wrapped the sensor with some cut up baking silicon to protect it from the heat. My plan B, if this did not work, was a periscope. I'm somewhat disappointed that it worked, since I prefer a periscope ;-)
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
http://english.varietalcafe.com
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