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snwcmpr
11/27/2019 11:44 AM
greenman

allenb
11/27/2019 11:04 AM
Nice! I know Netrix is going through things and tweaking as he see's issues

snwcmpr
11/26/2019 1:35 PM
I got an email that I had a PM. So, that is working for me again. greenman

snwcmpr
11/26/2019 1:33 PM
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11/26/2019 7:48 AM
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Excited about TC4C and air roaster
happycat
I'm hugely excited about the TC4C.

I have a 1400 watt air popper from Walmart here in Canada
I've separated the fan (using 16vDC laptop power supply) from the heater

I would like to set up a TC4c for monitoring and control using roastlogger. How many weeks does it take to get one? The ssr i want takes 3 wks to ship

Planned SSR for heater control

SSRL240DC25 3 Weeks $26.00 dc Control Signal (280 Vac line) 25 A Nominal rating (3vdc control on, 1vdc control off)
http://www.omega....Nav=autm01

Is that DC control range ok? Is it programmable for the tc4c?
Is heat (reqmt for heatsink) an issue if the ssr is rated twice as high as i would need?


Thermocouples k-type
BARE-20-K-12 $9.00 12 inch bare wire, type K thermocouple with 20 AWG wire
http://www.omega....Nav=tema02

Or they have shielded for $19....

Should i get bare or shielded? Is there a shorting issue without shielding?
How have people protected the wires between the tc4c and the roaster?
How are people securing the TCs in the roaster? I am thinking to place one at the air inlet for MET and one a few inches up in the chamber for BET. I have a metal probe from a kitchen thermo that died. I could cut a section out of it to mount the BET TC into the roast chamber.
What should i use to secure these items to the roaster? I killed one electronic thermo by putting its probe in the chamber so it gets pretty hot... Near 500f?
Does Jim have an update on enclosures for tc4c? I'm concerned about having the ssr safe. Is Jim's different from this one?
http://ca.mouser....Gqq6WO1Q==
I am thinking to stick with pc programming for now rather than buy the lcdapter. I am hoping to use a little netbook i have.


Not sure about doing the air control for now... I see mentions of using a mosfet but i'm not sure about how to do that. I PID'd my Gaggia and I can solder but I am no EE.



I would be happy to document my experience to provide to the community

Thanks for any comments or pointers
 
happycat
It seems there is info and recommendations over here

http://www.toomuc...;start=210

Jb weld is rated to 450f and higher intermittently for securing the TCs and it's available at canadian tire

The fancy TCs seem like overkill... I don't want to spend $90 on TCs alone. I do like the idea of having sleeves to poke the TCs into

Now i'm wondering if i should get the lcdapter to make it standalone... Someone reported atom based netbooks might be too slow to keep up
 
happycat
And enclosures here

http://www.digike...es/2163622
 
happycat
This site is helping me visualize the setup of the box

http://forum.brad...ic=22038.0
 
happycat
Info on using mosfet to control the fan using arduino

Also links to an explanatory video

http://bildr.org/...e-arduino/
 
allenb
Hi HC,

Sorry for the slow response but the weekend is a slow response time here at HRO due to all the back yard activities! bbq

Jim will have to answer the lead time question on TC4C. I think he's been out of town for a few days so give him a little time.

SSR is fine and the 3-32 will work with the TC4C's output as is.

Always a good idea to use something for a heatsink to bolt on to the SSR or, if using a sheetmetal enclosure just attaching to it will work and use some conducting compound. If a plastic enclosure like you've posted then mount to it's exterior with a slab of metal or surplus heat sink of your choosing.

On thermocouples. Buy the cheapie general purpose ungrounded, unsheathed basic TC:

http://www.instru...ermocouple

They state only good for up to 260 C but I've used them up to 650 F with no problems. You want instant response and to not have to wait for a metal sheath to catch up a minute later. You can get creative with mounting with a screw and washer to hold it in place. Using sheathed, grounded thermocouples can create grounding issues that are very tough to pin down. Just don't have the bead touch other metal components.

On measuring ET (you want to measure the whole ET and not just maximum ET! I hate the abbreviation MET! Sorry about that.


Yes, find a neat place to stick the cheapie thermocouple in the area just prior to the roast chamber. use a sheet metal screw and washer if needed to keep it from wandering. Just be careful to not screw into any nichrome or wires! Your reading will not be a perfect average of the total air stream hitting the beans but will be plenty good enough for a reference as long as it stays put.

For fan control, Jim or others can hopefully lend a hand with needed phase control or other means of having Roastlogger and TC4C control it.

Stay tuned and more to follow from our popper and TC4C wizes.

Welcome to HRO! woohoo

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
happycat
Could i use this ssr? It is way cheaper than others prob due to the packaging difference. Is 3v-32v dc input for control ok? Again... Is that programmable?

http://www.digike...-ND/753399
 
happycat
This might be a good thermocouple. With a plug... Could unplug box from roaster when not in use or just remove connector... Shame to pay for connectors won't be using but would be cheaper to buy everything here vs some from omega (shipping)

http://www.digike...-ND/415777
 
happycat
allenb wrote:

Hi HC,

Sorry for the slow response but the weekend is a slow response time here at HRO due to all the back yard activities! bbq

Jim will have to answer the lead time question on TC4C. I think he's been out of town for a few days so give him a little time.

SSR is fine and the 3-32 will work with the TC4C's output as is.

Always a good idea to use something for a heatsink to bolt on to the SSR or, if using a sheetmetal enclosure just attaching to it will work and use some conducting compound. If a plastic enclosure like you've posted then mount to it's exterior with a slab of metal or surplus heat sink of your choosing.

On thermocouples. Buy the cheapie general purpose ungrounded, unsheathed basic TC:

http://www.instru...ermocouple

They state only good for up to 260 C but I've used them up to 650 F with no problems. You want instant response and to not have to wait for a metal sheath to catch up a minute later. You can get creative with mounting with a screw and washer to hold it in place. Using sheathed, grounded thermocouples can create grounding issues that are very tough to pin down. Just don't have the bead touch other metal components.

On measuring ET (you want to measure the whole ET and not just maximum ET! I hate the abbreviation MET! Sorry about that.


Yes, find a neat place to stick the cheapie thermocouple in the area just prior to the roast chamber. use a sheet metal screw and washer if needed to keep it from wandering. Just be careful to not screw into any nichrome or wires! Your reading will not be a perfect average of the total air stream hitting the beans but will be plenty good enough for a reference as long as it stays put.

For fan control, Jim or others can hopefully lend a hand with needed phase control or other means of having Roastlogger and TC4C control it.

Stay tuned and more to follow from our popper and TC4C wizes.

Welcome to HRO! woohoo

Allen



Oops sorry i didn't see your update. I have been ruminating here collecting links together as I surf the net and read resources.. Thanks so much for your response and info!
 
allenb
happycat wrote:

Could i use this ssr? It is way cheaper than others prob due to the packaging difference. Is 3v-32v dc input for control ok? Again... Is that programmable?

http://www.digike...-ND/753399


These work just fine

http://yourduino....&p=216

FYI, the 3-32 vdc is the min and max dc input the relay will accept to turn on. It is not a control range that the TC4C puts out to vary the SSR's output. It is a relay (on and off only).

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
happycat
That's an amazing site, thanks!
 
allenb
happycat wrote:

This might be a good thermocouple. With a plug... Could unplug box from roaster when not in use or just remove connector... Shame to pay for connectors won't be using but would be cheaper to buy everything here vs some from omega (shipping)

http://www.digike...-ND/415777


Since you're going to end up with more than one roaster (trust me),
being able to use one TC4C control box for all of them is a great way to go so using the mini TC connectors is perfect!

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
happycat
For the benefit of others, based on some great help offered here and some other clicking, these are the parts I am going to buy-- got it down to two suppliers to save shipping (shipping from Hong Kong is 1/3 the price of shipping from the industrial section of my own city!!!):

TC4C-BUILT - the brains of the operation $89
http://www.mlgp-l...o-pcb.html

2 x 3' K-Thermocouples with glass braid and bare bead probe $10 ea
http://www.adafru...oducts/270

**
MOSFET parts/setup based on the following website
http://bildr.org/...e-arduino/

MOSFET for controlling fan $1.25
http://www.adafru...oducts/355

Power blocking diode to protect MOSFET from DC motor kickback $1.50/10
http://www.adafru...oducts/755

10Kohm resistor for the MOSFET $1/100
http://yourduino....&p=306

**

Short A-B USB Cable $1
http://yourduino....&p=166

SSR for heater control $11
http://yourduino....&p=216


I think the only things I am missing are some wire (no big deal) and an enclosure.

I have also put together a revised wiring diagram.
* The linked diagram from Jim uses an AC fan rather than a DC fan -- my DC fan would use the MOSFET/diode/resistor.
* With an SSR with zero cross switching, I don't believe I need the zero-cross detector.
* I'd love to have an LCD but it's not a "need" so I should save on the costs.
* I'll skip the optional pots
http://www.mlgp-l...111120.jpg


Hm... I've tried to mod the wiring diagram. Not sure if this is right... or where to connect the mosfet into the TC4C
happycat attached the following image:
tc4-wiring-air_popper_dc_motor_simplified.jpg
 
happycat
Hm... brain meltdown?

Is this the right diagram?
happycat attached the following image:
tc4-wiring-air_popper_dc_motor_simplified_1.jpg
 
happycat
As suggested, I found a metal enclosure. It's a cookie tin I brought back from Japan - should be big enough to separate the TC4C, the AC stuff and the DC stuff, and bolt the SSR to for a heatsink.

I'll need non-conductive standoffs for the TC4C board. Not sure if I really need thermal paste.

I could use this plastic mounting tray for the TC4C to isolate it and the other components other than the SSR from the metal box. Or it may be an unnecessary expense if I find some non-conductive standoffs at the local hardware store.

[url]http://www.adafruit.com/products/275[\url]

I also found a clip-on heatsink for the MOSFET $0.75. Perhaps I could secure the heatsink to the metal enclosure as well.

http://www.adafru...oducts/977
 
happycat
OK I bought everything except the plastic mounting tray. I should be able to find nylon/plastic standoffs at the hardware store, and also some rubber grommits to smooth out the holes I'll be drilling into the cookie tin so they are cable friendly.

I should get some thermal compound somewhere for the SSR and the MOSFET heatsink. It would be nice to find something cheap locally.

Shipping costs add up fast even when choosing the lowest cost option-- in Canada anyway-- which is why I tried to reduce the number of suppliers.

FYI, I spent $21 shipping on the TC4C, $8 shipping from Yourduino from China, and $11 shipping from Adafruit. So shipping makes up $40 of the entire budget, or about 25%. That's more than the costs of all the non TC4C components combined!

Budget accordingly!

I expect to get my parts together in about a month.
 
clif123
Hey HC,

I'm just starting a new hot popper roaster project myself and also new to this forum. It is probably too late for you, but I found some good prices on parts that I hope work for this project. I got a $5 stainless probe K thermocouple off of Amazon (search for: "amico k type 5cm long probe thermocouple") and I was able to get some overkill 50A 240VAC SSRs for $7 off of eBay. I found that the quality used ones were safer than gambling on the new cheap knock-offs. I had the parts for doing the thermocouple sensor logic myself but after I saw the TC4, I had to bite. I can't wait to get my hands on it.
 
happycat
clif123 wrote:

Hey HC,

I'm just starting a new hot popper roaster project myself and also new to this forum. It is probably too late for you, but I found some good prices on parts that I hope work for this project. I got a $5 stainless probe K thermocouple off of Amazon (search for: "amico k type 5cm long probe thermocouple") and I was able to get some overkill 50A 240VAC SSRs for $7 off of eBay. I found that the quality used ones were safer than gambling on the new cheap knock-offs. I had the parts for doing the thermocouple sensor logic myself but after I saw the TC4, I had to bite. I can't wait to get my hands on it.


Thanks for the tips!

I have already ordered but I appreciate the heads-up. It may help other modders who come across this post.

Re the thermocouple, note that the stainless housing will affect the sensitivity of the actual TC inside... The TC is probably grounded to that housing vs being a bead probe. Heat will have to permeate the housing first. I know a kitchen thermo I had with the grounded probe design took 30secs to update temperature which really surprised me. Hope this one works better for you.

I've had some extraordinary luck with cheap knockoffs of various products over the years shipped direct from China and Korea... Hope this works out as well.

Good luck with your mod and please share more in this thread as you make progress.
 
clif123
HC,

Curious if you have any update on the turnaround of your TC4. I'm waiting to hear back about that also. I placed my order back in early May but have not heard anything. Is this normal?
 
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happycat
clif123 wrote:

HC,

Curious if you have any update on the turnaround of your TC4. I'm waiting to hear back about that also. I placed my order back in early May but have not heard anything. Is this normal?


I am in the same boat. All my other stuff came within a week of ordering but no word on the TC4C.

I have read that back when Jim was making PID Kits it took 3 weeks from payment before he shipped (http://pidkits.co...ering.html) I don't think this is his day job so I'm being patient.
 
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