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pisanoal
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· 05/27/2020 10:14 AM
Anyone else have issues seeing the whole window of a thread when accessing from a mobile phone? Any fixes?

allenb
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· 04/02/2020 4:50 AM
Morning Ed, I haven't done any green coffee hoarding yet but am hoping the supplies don't end up like the toilet paper isles!

snwcmpr
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· 03/31/2020 2:53 PM
Hey Ed. Thanks. roar

homeroaster
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· 03/31/2020 11:21 AM
Hey quarantined home roasters! I hope you have great coffee! If they have a run on coffee, I hope you're set with your great home roast! Find me on Facebook! Ed Needham

snwcmpr
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· 03/25/2020 11:49 AM
New Rochelle in the news. I think of you every time I hear it. ... Please stay safe.

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Control of the Gene
allenb
I need some help understanding the Gene's temperature controls. In particular I'm trying to get my hands around what the function is of the two sensors (air leaving the heater entering the RC and exhaust leaving the RC).

-Which one is the input to the controls maintaining the setpoint?
-Is the other sensor only being used for a high limit?
-Is the climb to reach setpoint a controlled ramp or full power till setpoint is reached?
-Can multiple setpoints be programmed for a roast or only realtime single setpoints that you set at the beginning of each phase of the roast?

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Barrie
I read a very detailed review by Eddie Dove in which he says that the digital readout is from the sensor placed just outside the air-entry end of the container, and the other sensor outside the air-exit end is a "sentry." It would make sense then that the readout is always higher than BMT during roasting and lower during cooling.

If you have not seen a GC working, during a roast the readout changes every two seconds from the set point to the measured temp, and back. The numbers of the measured temp are distinguished by periods between each digit. 4.1.5. for example.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
troposcuba
Allen, I can't comment on how the readings and thermostat function on the GC as I don't really know. What I can tell you is that it seems to be full power till it hits the setpoint, then you can hear the element switch off (as evidenced by the lighting in my house going brighter at that point, and dimmer as it kicks back on the heater). Mine seems to drop about 8* from the setpoint before the element kicks back on and brings it back to the setpoint. If you do not change anything it will continue with this cycle. Nothing is really programmable, other than setting a time or a single temp and letting it go. I do not roast this way on mine though. I actively watch the roast as it progresses. depending on the bean I am roasting, and how aggressively I want to pour on the heat, I will go in steps (sometimes larger, sometimes smaller). being that it is not really ramping the power to the element to reach temp, you can't really control it that way. I figure that if I set it to say 446* for a step, let it hit that temp (remember the beans should be cooler than the readout) cycle down to the lower limit for that setting, then progress to my next higher step, say 456* and so on. what I hope to acheive doing this is to let it dwell a bit at different temps along the way. I usually only cycle once at each step to avoid stalling the progression of the actual temp in the beans.

If I were to make two huge improvements to this roaster (which I love by the way), it would be to have some way to have actual bean temp readout, and the other huge control I would like to have would be manual fan speed control. Of course this won't do much good till you can actually read the temp of the beans. A third improvement i would make after the other two were in place would be a heating element that was powerful enough to react quickly and a way to ramp it from lower to higher settings.

Don't get me wrong though. Overall, it is a great roaster just the way it comes out of the box and very good roasts are acheivable with it in it's stock configuration.
Sean
 
allenb
Thanks, much clearer now.

Sean, how long does a typical on/off heater cycle take?

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
troposcuba

Quote

allenb wrote:

Thanks, much clearer now.

Sean, how long does a typical on/off heater cycle take?
Allen


Well, again this is just theory, but it seems to stay on full power till it reaches the setpoint whatever that it. Obviously the higher the setpoint, the colder the ambient air, the size of the bean mass, and it's temp, and from what I have read, the electrical source the machine is plugged into as well all influence how quickly it will reach that setpoint. Once it does, mine seems to cycle down about 8* below that point and then kick the heat back on. Honestly I have not actually noted that time, but I would guess 20 seconds at most till the heater kicks back on. then the temp starts to climb at the normal rate again.
Sean
 
allenb
Barrie stated in post at: 98.207.158.192

I just spoke to Tim, at Fresh Beans Inc., the US distributor. The temperature readout is from the sensor at the exit port from the container. It is not an average from the entry and exit sensors. The sensor at the entry side is for safety purposes. If it reaches an excessive heat it shuts off the heater. So, the statement in Eddie Dove's excellent review and break-down description is incorrect.
Tim also says that the heater is either ON or OFF. It has no capability of delivering variable temperatures. When it reaches the set temperature it servos ON and OFF around that endpoint.

I hope this is useful clarification and apologize for any incorrect information I passed along earlier.


Barrie,

Very useful information knowing which sensor is being fed back for control of the heating element. For a long time I was scratching my head wondering how the Gene got away with such low temperatures entering the RC. With knowing the displayed temperature is exhaust I would think with the same bean and batch size and repeating the same setpoint changes that one could relate X temperature exhaust with end of drying (yellow) and first crack events and could get by without hearing the pops. Then again, I'm assuming there will be enough consistency to pull this off. Obviously, with major changes in ambient temperature this would probably not hold up. It would be nice to see some experimentation with this.

Allen
Edited by allenb on 02/18/2013 7:14 PM
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
allenb

Quote

troposcuba wrote:

Quote

allenb wrote:

Thanks, much clearer now.

Sean, how long does a typical on/off heater cycle take?
Allen


Well, again this is just theory, but it seems to stay on full power till it reaches the setpoint whatever that it. Obviously the higher the setpoint, the colder the ambient air, the size of the bean mass, and it's temp, and from what I have read, the electrical source the machine is plugged into as well all influence how quickly it will reach that setpoint. Once it does, mine seems to cycle down about 8* below that point and then kick the heat back on. Honestly I have not actually noted that time, but I would guess 20 seconds at most till the heater kicks back on. then the temp starts to climb at the normal rate again.


Sean, with knowing the temperature readout is post-bean it explains everything with the perceived slow to climb entering air temperature. I've learned that the heating element is a nichrome coil (heatgun style) so I'm sure it reacts just as quickly as any other roaster. Mystery solved!

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
hazbean
Allen, the heater is a nichrome coil in an aluminium enclosure that fits onto the fan. We broke one open once to have a look, inside is the coil and a thermal cutout device (the heater isn't damaged, a fair bit of force was needed was to break the sealant, but the two halves can be reunited with more sealant).

The third picture in this gallery

https://picasaweb.google.com/haazbean...sAndHeater

shows the heater box attached to the housing through which hot air passes over the right sensor and into the roasting chamber.

I measured the air entering the RC at 320C. It then goes over the beans and through the chamber to the exit sensor, which is displayed on the readout. Hence both the magnitude and rate of rise of the readout are influenced by the amount of bean mass and the environment of the roaster.
 
allenb
Thanks for the photo links. It's interesting that the inlet temp gets up to the range where I'm use to seeing with other fluidbed roasters (500 to 650).

I used to wonder how in the world the Gene was able to pull off a roast in any amount of time when (supposedly) it was only sending up to 482 F into the RC. Now that we know the readout sensor is post - bean that's cleared up that mystery.

From looking at Barrie's recent post in the "Drying phase...Gene" showing one set of temperatures during a ramp up without beans, it appears the sensor feeding the display and controls tops out at 482.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
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