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pisanoal
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· 05/27/2020 10:14 AM
Anyone else have issues seeing the whole window of a thread when accessing from a mobile phone? Any fixes?

allenb
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· 04/02/2020 4:50 AM
Morning Ed, I haven't done any green coffee hoarding yet but am hoping the supplies don't end up like the toilet paper isles!

snwcmpr
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· 03/31/2020 2:53 PM
Hey Ed. Thanks. roar

homeroaster
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· 03/31/2020 11:21 AM
Hey quarantined home roasters! I hope you have great coffee! If they have a run on coffee, I hope you're set with your great home roast! Find me on Facebook! Ed Needham

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· 03/25/2020 11:49 AM
New Rochelle in the news. I think of you every time I hear it. ... Please stay safe.

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Anyone put a data logger on the Gene?
Steve Egge
Just wondering if you could splice into the temp cables somewhere and route it to a datalogger.

If you've done this or know how to do it could you please share it with me.
Wouldn't it be best to splice into it where the cords from the temp probes fit into the temp display? not sure how to do this though. or what wires I would use to get it to a K-type coupling externally.

Thanks ...

Steve Egge
Santoker Rev 500, Baratza Vario-W, HG-One, Bunn Trifecta MB, AeroPress, Londinium I
 
John Despres
Here is the work of Eddie Dove.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/...de=id.i167

These directions will get you through disassembling your GC. The two sensors are shown at each end.

The sensor at the heater end provides the temperature that shows on the temp display. The other sensor is the safety overheat shutdown.

I have no idea how to splice into either of these, but perhaps running a probe into heater next to the other sensor may work for you.

Keep in mind this is only giving you a reasonable idea of what the drum temp is. With that in mind, you could accurately record the numbers yourself, if that's all you need.

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
www.sceneitallproductions.com
Steve Egge
Thanks John ...

will try to get some cables and try to splice where the temp goes into the machine.
Would be nice to have the temps recorded ... and feed into "roaster thing" ...

Steve
Santoker Rev 500, Baratza Vario-W, HG-One, Bunn Trifecta MB, AeroPress, Londinium I
 
Barrie
Steve, When you splice in the wires, could you please take some photos so that, if it all turns out well, you can tell us exactly what you did - with pictures?
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
Steve Egge
Sure Barrie ...
May be a while ... electronics are not my forte. Hoping someone had already done it ...

Steve
Santoker Rev 500, Baratza Vario-W, HG-One, Bunn Trifecta MB, AeroPress, Londinium I
 
MikeWI
Steve, as long as you're doing this, have you thought about taking a temperature from both ends of the machine? Since one is for thermal overload you may have to add a "real" sensor there.

It would be interesting to chart the temp difference between the two as the roast progresses. As the beans start generating their own heat, I'd expect the input and output temps to come closer together. Maybe this would tell us something about what's going on with the roast? Just an idea.

I hate to crack open a practically brand new GC, but it's getting mighty tempting. LOL
 
www.allcreaturesphoto.com
Steve Egge
Mike .. my thoughts exactly ... I have bought a data logger and it will give me the difference between the two readings ... kindof like what the bean temp absorbsion is ... now to implement it ... planning and plotting ..

Got the data logger from http://www.roasterthing.com/Logging
Santoker Rev 500, Baratza Vario-W, HG-One, Bunn Trifecta MB, AeroPress, Londinium I
 
MikeWI
Yeah, if I had any brains I would have realized that's what you were doing in the first place!Grin

Thanks for that link, I hadn't heard of that one. Looks like fun!
 
www.allcreaturesphoto.com
hazbean
I've done some fiddling around with both data logging on the GC, and with the temp sensors, so maybe I can help.

First of all, I made a Picasa gallery a while ago when I pulled the GC to bits a few times, of what the sensors looked like and some of their characteristics.

These pics are here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/haazbean...sAndHeater

As for splicing into them, that would be best done where they connect to the circuit board. I've got a pic of the board here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...directlink

where you can see how the probes connect.

It would be really interesting to do these measurements, especially looking at the difference between the two probes.

Unfortunately though I think there are major difficulties. Firstly, neither of the sensors is a K-type TC -- they are both NTC (negative temp coefficient) thermistors; one has a room temp R of 1MOhm, the other is 4MOhm. So you have to write some software to convert readings to temp (this needs the operating charcteristics of the devices, best obtained from a data sheet, but as there is no manufacturer info that I could see, we can't do that; however maybe it's possible to figure them out by experiment).

A bigger stumbling block would be actually getting a measurement. The R of the thermistor is significant when compared to the impedance of a standard DMM, so the act of measuring with it will affect the reading. A suitable measurement instrument might be hard to find.


For the left hand (exit) sensor, it is possible to drill holes and insert a K type TC which can be logged in the usual way. I've done that -- there is a graph in the first link above of the TC readings compared to the readout. Roastlogger could easily handle that.


Not sure if the other sensor would be so easy. You can have a look at my pics to see what you think of getting another probe in there without too much disturbance.


Would be great if it worked ....
 
Steve Egge
So I put a Data logger on my Gene ... and have been playing with it for a week.

It has been very informative ... I have a probe in placed in the metal heater intake and one in the plastic exaust outflow port and have hooked it up to The
Roaster Thing sofware (Free) ... works wery nicely.

Here are some readings I've been getting ...

First there is a graph from preheating the Gene to 400 F for 6 minutes
The top line is the intake ... the middle line is the outflow and the green third line is the difference between the tube (can do this as a function of the roaster thing software)

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos?hl...1928255042

Next is a Roast of a Harrar ... This time the top line is the intake temp, the red line is the out flow temp and the Green line is me recording what the readout was on the machine. preheated to 400F. Beans warmed at 350F x 5 minutes ... temp up to 482 ... then 45 sec into 1C turned down to 456. and stopped the roast a bit later than I should have with an E Stop

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos?hl...1108403282

Note that the MAX temp going into the Gene was 857 F !!!!

So these are the results ... Glad I did put the data logger in .. now I can either choose to manually put in numbers or not and concentrate more on the roast ... yet still have data on the roast. I really can't speak highly enough about the Roaster Thing sofware ... Ira shipped me the data logger with no problems ... works great ... just have to set it up with the software of the roaster thing.
(important to increase max temp to 880 or so on the preferences and to put in that you have a data logger on board.)

I'll post next about hardware and installation ...

interesting stuff ...

Steve
Santoker Rev 500, Baratza Vario-W, HG-One, Bunn Trifecta MB, AeroPress, Londinium I
 
Steve Egge
Using a Logger with the Gene Café …
I wanted to better understand the Gene and how it worked so I got a data logger that works with the Roaster Thing Software http://www.roasterthing.com/ through Curmudgeon Coffee which seems to be a "store" for The Roaster Thing add ons and merchandise http://www.curmudgeoncoffee.com/Roast...asterThingI’m sure there are other data loggers out there and perhaps they are cheaper but this worked with Roaster Thing and I wanted to support Ira’s efforts so bought from him.
I obtained two thermocouple probes from Thermoworks (THS-113-382) High Temp Wire Probes … (but might need at some point to change them to the High Temp Flexible Ceramic Fiber-Insulated Probe -Model: WD-08467-64/WD-08467-64-10 - ***temps on probe do exceed 650°F ***).

Here is an album of pictures of the assembly and materials

https://plus.google.com/photos/103376...0979871313

Next I took apart the Gene using the instructions posted by Eddie Dove http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogsp...-for.html

I didn't want to mess with the readouts temps and board stuff that was on the Gene so i installed new probes ... rather than trying to tap into theirs (and potentially really mess up a good thing)

Once apart I drilled into the hot Air intake and the Air Outflow chambers with a 5/64” bit … the thermocouple probes fit well. See Pictures. I taped the thermocouple leads with high temperature tape (20mm Kapon Tape mentioned on the Roaster Thing site talking about installing a thermocouple in a Behmor). I also “sealed the hole” with some “High Temp RTV Silicone” that is good up to 650°F … thinking it would help secure the probe and prevent air leaks.

It is best to snake the probes from the outside in … drill a hole through the housing for the probe to go through as I did or feed them into an air slot … if you install the tip first you will be stuck trying to get the type K plug to the outside where it can plug into the datalogger.

I plugged the two probes into the Curmudgeoncoffee logger and it worked through roaster Thing. I could plug my computer into the roaster and have the temps recorded.
Windows 7 and 8 seem to have a difficult time installing the USB logger by itself and you will have to go to Device Manager … find the probe that is incompletely installed and direct it to the roaster thing directory to correctly install the device logger and make it work ...

Then it is simply going to the roaster thing software and telling it you have a data logger board ... set the max temp to 880 or you won't see the top of the intake graph. And it allows you to set display of the second logger input (as temp 2 or that plus combinations) ... I set temp 2 as temp 2 (my outflow temp) and told it I wanted 3 logs .. so I coul manually enter the display temps which is easy to do on the roaster thing ...reading the manual can be helpful.

The Roaster thing software is really catered to the Behmor but will work on any roaster. Very fun and interesting stuff.

Steve
Edited by Steve Egge on 02/24/2013 1:43 PM
Santoker Rev 500, Baratza Vario-W, HG-One, Bunn Trifecta MB, AeroPress, Londinium I
 
allenb

Quote

Steve Egge wrote:



First there is a graph from preheating the Gene to 400 F for 6 minutes
The top line is the intake ... the middle line is the outflow and the green third line is the difference between the tube (can do this as a function of the roaster thing software)

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos?hl...1928255042

Next is a Roast of a Harrar ... This time the top line is the intake temp, the red line is the out flow temp and the Green line is me recording what the readout was on the machine. preheated to 400F. Beans warmed at 350F x 5 minutes ... temp up to 482 ... then 45 sec into 1C turned down to 456. and stopped the roast a bit later than I should have with an E Stop

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos?hl...1108403282


Steve


Steve, I tried accessing the two links above and can only get a google sign-in screen. Once signed in it doesn't lead to anything. Maybe it's just me?

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Steve Egge
Difficult to post pictures so I posted a link to the Album which is set for PUBLIC viewing ... so I'll try to post the links again ...

copied them to photobucket and will change my message above ...

steve
Santoker Rev 500, Baratza Vario-W, HG-One, Bunn Trifecta MB, AeroPress, Londinium I
 
Steve Egge
sorry .. the internet isn't working for me ... arrrgh ...

hopefully this link will work ... to the whole album.

http://s600.beta.photobucket.com/user...9886222221
Santoker Rev 500, Baratza Vario-W, HG-One, Bunn Trifecta MB, AeroPress, Londinium I
 
Barrie
Steve, this is great stuff and I am very tempted to attack my own machine.
I will give it a day or two to see if I "come to my senses." This is anything but a negative comment, other than one aimed at my own ability to screw things up. Grin Umpteen questions arise and here is the main one for me. Is it correct that what you have done completely avoids the possible hazard of changing the digital readout by altering impedance?
You may or may not have seen my post regarding the point at which the temperature displayed in the readout is measured. It is from the exit end, and no doubt you have confirmed that.
Are you concerned about the temperature at the inlet end in terms of your silicone sealant's max temp tolerance?
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
Steve Egge
Barrie .. glad the pics came through.

A couple of things ...

1 - I didn't touch or splice into the Gene's temp probes ... tempting after pulling the one in the out flow out to try to cram the thermoprobe wire I had along side of it .. but I left well enough alone and drilled new and separat holes for each thermaprobe. Temp readout is same as it always has been. Didn't alter any impedence to the temp probes.

2 - The temps I recorded were way higher on the intake than I expected ... I'll just say everything has survived 5 roasts. I am banking on the silicone lasting quite a while .. If I notice something amiss ... I'll replace it ... I'll open it up and check it in a few months to see how it is doing ... but it is all good so far. I might pick a probe with a higher temp rating ... but they are holding up.

3 - I am VERY IMPRESSED with the RoasterThing software ... I keep an inventory in there and it works great with SM orders (just type in the order number and it pulls everything in from the website!) ... I've been able to abandon my manual pencil and paper logging ... and if I want it is easy to enter the temp from the Gene board readout to compare it to my readings. (Don't think they have a IPad version yet. Just got a Windows 8 Surface Pro and will try hooking it up to the data logger so I can use a touch screen) ...

I understand the reluctance to tear into the gene .. but it wasn't that bad .. just don't loose the screws .. I placed them on duct tape in the order they came out and that worked well. It is nice not having to record everything manually and am glad I did it.

If you decide to go for it and want to talk .. shoot me an e-mail and we can switch to the phone.

Steve
Santoker Rev 500, Baratza Vario-W, HG-One, Bunn Trifecta MB, AeroPress, Londinium I
 
hazbean
Well done Steve, that's quite an achievement!

I see that you have done it without drilling any holes in the outer casing -- you have used a "bead" type TC at the end of a wire, which is quite flexible. The one that I used was a fairly long sheathed probe that needed to be removable as I was using it another roaster as well.

857 is pretty warm but your probe is pretty close to the heater (I did a one-off measurement of 320C/610F just inside the roasting chamber, which would be consistent with that).

Have you noticed much difference between the readout and your exit TC? I was getting about 35F difference, but it was consistent across the range of roasting temperatures.

I see also that there has been a recent firmware revision (I think mine, late 2007, is version 6, yours is version 7).

This is getting me tempted to try a probe at the heater end. I resisted before due to being unsure of the heat sealant but yours seems to be working fine ...

I was running mine with a dimmer control on the heater, and setting it using a power meter (1200W max, 800W as a medium setting, and about 300W to get a drying phase with a lower MET). Using the TC at the heater end would be invaluable in this context as it would be possible to adjust the max incoming temp (MET) directly. Interesting.
 
Steve Egge
You can thread the probes through the air vents along the right side in back or drill a couple of holes into the side casing one for each probe - which is what I did.

My exit temp is about 20 degrees above the reading on the Gene ... The gene temp seems to be somewhat more steady or shows less oscillations than my exit temp. Which is good.

It was a fun project for me ...

Steve
Santoker Rev 500, Baratza Vario-W, HG-One, Bunn Trifecta MB, AeroPress, Londinium I
 
Steve Egge
I took the Gene apart again ... and looked at my silicone and wires ... all is good.
but played a bit with the exit temp of the Gene (not mine) ... stuck it down farther ... Interesting.

If you insert the probe further into the canal ... your temp readings go up by about 10- 15 degrees .. I used to hit first crack at about 460 - 465 but now my temps read 470 - 480 ... so I grabbed it with a pair of hemostats after taking out the glass drum ... it is right in the middle of the exit port and pushed it back up .. now my temps are more in line with what they "should" be from the factory.

I played with the probe when i was putting the data logger in ... took it out and reinserted it .. .then pushed it in further just to see and it changed my temp reading ... would rather have it read lower than higher as the exit flow temp is what apparently controls the heater.

Interesting to play with ... Wonder if they have factory standards and run the gene to make sure all of them leave with the same temp readings ...

Steve
Santoker Rev 500, Baratza Vario-W, HG-One, Bunn Trifecta MB, AeroPress, Londinium I
 
Barrie

Quote

Steve Egge wrote:

I took the Gene apart again ... and looked at my silicone and wires ... all is good.
but played a bit with the exit temp of the Gene (not mine) ... stuck it down farther ... Interesting.

If you insert the probe further into the canal ... your temp readings go up by about 10- 15 degrees .. I used to hit first crack at about 460 - 465 but now my temps read 470 - 480 ... so I grabbed it with a pair of hemostats after taking out the glass drum ... it is right in the middle of the exit port and pushed it back up .. now my temps are more in line with what they "should" be from the factory.

I played with the probe when i was putting the data logger in ... took it out and reinserted it .. .then pushed it in further just to see and it changed my temp reading ... would rather have it read lower than higher as the exit flow temp is what apparently controls the heater.

Interesting to play with ... Wonder if they have factory standards and run the gene to make sure all of them leave with the same temp readings ...

Steve


Presumably, the closer you get to the metal housing, the more will the probe reflect its temperature, rather than that of the air flow?
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
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