Who is here? 1 guest(s)
 Print Thread
stalling in 1st..
jedovaty
Hi there.

Questions about stalling during first crack on a solid drum roaster.

1. What's it taste like? Suppose I should try and see

2. Is it possible for the BT to register rising on the TC, but in actuality stall? In other words, if you still have ROR, is there such thing as too low an ROR?

I recently roasted a coffee and I forgot to turn on the fan at the beginning. I went through all the motions adjusting heat and variac settings for the fan, profile was turning out exactly as I wanted, then in 1st levelled to about 2.. I've never let it go below 6-7, and having the fan on has helped keep the heat going.

Thank you,
jano
 
Dan

Quote

Is there such thing as too low an ROR?


Perhaps. One could argue that a nearly flat ROR is actually a mild stall. Coffee is still endothermic until the end of 1st crack, so you have to keep pouring on the heat just as you don't take popcorn off the stove just when it begins to pop.
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
 
http://www.intactamerica.org
Ringo
When I have stalled coffee the flavor is just flat. I believe that time after 1st crack is when we are creating the complex layered flavors we love. If you stall here you will get the roasty flavors because the beans still turn dark. I also believe if you roast too long after first crack you can also get a flat coffee. Thats were I struggle is when the coffee is not good did I stall or did I roast too long? I believe a stall is a bigger problem because with the too long roast development you still develop some good flavors but you kill the acidity. I am still learning and if you ask me next month I may something different.
All you need in life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain
 
allenb

Quote

Dan wrote:

Quote

Is there such thing as too low an ROR?


Perhaps. One could argue that a nearly flat ROR is actually a mild stall. Coffee is still endothermic until the end of 1st crack, so you have to keep pouring on the heat just as you don't take popcorn off the stove just when it begins to pop.


I did some more digging into the endo/exothermic business since I've never been clear on it mainly due to conflicting statements from the "experts" out there. I've never found anything with an accompanying chart showing internal bean temp and the reactions side by side.

Boot had an earlier article (now missing) stating exothermic during first pop followed by a second exothermic sometime during 2nd.

This site http://www.coffeechemistry.com/index....sting.html seems to suggest exothermic during 1st but is poorly written so it's hard to pin it down.

Dan, I agree with you that no matter what they want to call it endo/exo, at the beginning of first pop the beans aren't creating real heat which would require reducing roaster power level but is actually doing the opposite causing a reduction in RoR.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Ringo
Last summer my wife gave ma a gift to the Boot class, it was a great time and I learned a lot. Boot does not like to use 1st crack as a indication of where the coffee is. We would all ask questions a bought 1 st crack and they would just say it is not what everybody thinks it is. He teaches you to smell the coffee and log the time between the different smells. It worked for me, my coffee is better. When its not as good I have an idea what to change. Lots of time was spent cupping coffee. I got to roast on some 1st class drum roasters. Boot does teach you to reduce heat when coming out of first crack,he believes in cracking coffee making heat as the steam is released from the bean. But he says after 1st crack is winding down you need to come back on the heat. It was Boot who pushed everybody to stretch the time after first crack, he came up with the phrase "Roast Development" and really believes its important. The people who were teaching the class were working in the background developing roast profiles for company's in the industry. It was cool to watch them fight with the same questions as us as they were trying to find a better roast. If a big roaster was not happy with how a bean was cupping they would get boot to develop a different profile. We got to cup before and after roast and they are good at getting the most out. It was all by time till different smells, no body ever said the word Rate Of Rise only time and temps. if you do not roast on a commercial style drum the method would not work, from start to finish they teach you to record when coffee hit different smells. To do this you have to be able to take beans out and smell, it not the smell of the exhaust. The classes are small and mostly commercial roasters so it interesting to talk with them and see how they are doing it for a living and still asking basic questions like us. None of the info we were given ever talked a bought 2nd crack, these people are full coffee nurds and we only roasted to Full City never past. But if someone was interested in dark roasting they would teach it.
All you need in life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain
 
allenb

Quote

jedovaty wrote:

Hi there.

Questions about stalling during first crack on a solid drum roaster.

1. What's it taste like? Suppose I should try and see

2. Is it possible for the BT to register rising on the TC, but in actuality stall? In other words, if you still have ROR, is there such thing as too low an ROR?

Thank you,
jano


In my experience, anything below 5/min for more than 30 sec has resulted in a reduction of quality in terms of complexity, high notes and acidity which seems to be in line with Ringo's findings. At the first couple of snips of 1C (drum roasts) my RoR takes a natural dive on it's own. For an example, if I was at 27/m prior to 1C it can drop down to 10/m without any change in power level. With higher exhaust air flow rates there will not be as large of a drop.

As far as beans in a stall while RoR is moving up on our thermometer, I've never heard of this being possible.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Dan
HINT for everyone: To insert the degree symbol, °, just hold down the ALT key while typing 0176 on the numeric keyboard. :)
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
 
http://www.intactamerica.org
snwcmpr
Or alt 248 ... °

Ken
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
 
jedovaty
Cool, thanks, all good reading. Roast did stall, confirmed by someone with more experience than me. Now I know what it tastes like - not sure how to describe it.

In my case: 2F ROR is just too low - taking into account inherent inaccuracies of placement, type, and latency of the TC, I'm theorizing at least a few situations where it's possible a ROR could appear to be rising, when in reality it is not.

I've read up more on endo vs. exo thermic reactions at 1st crack, and honestly, I'm confusing myself trying to rationalize and define which witch is which, so I'm just going to stay out of it. What I've learned, with my Huky for the most part: washed beans have a tendency level out and are easier to control, while natural/dry will continue rising unless I coast into 1st crack.

(PS: I don't have a numeric keypad)
 
Jump to Forum: