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· 05/27/2020 10:14 AM
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Slowing down the ramp
erik82
Just wanted to post a technique I use in this cold weather which seems to give me more even roasts and see if others use it.

For me roasting in cold weather is better because the ramp up slows down causing the heating element so have lees on/off cycles which seems to give me more even roasts.

After drying for 5 minutes at 300F (150C) I ramp up setting the temp to somewhere between 464-482F (240-250C) depending on the bean. When the temperature reaches between 410-428F (210-220C) I open the protective lid of the Gene to slow down the ramp up. Reason for me was that I've reached a critical point in temperature and further ramp up can be slowed down.

Doing this the heater element stays on till around first crack where it would cycle on/off for a couple of times when leaving the lid closed. This really improved my roasts.
Olympia Cremina 2013, HG one 83mm #0083, Gene Cafe.
Also Zassenhaus grinder, Chemex, Abid Clever Dripper, Kalita Wave, Aeropress, Hario Buono, Bodum Cafetiere and Bialetti Mokapot
 
John Despres
Sounds quite viable to me, Erik. I've never tried it, but I roast indoors with an exhaust vent. I hope others try and will let us know.

Thanks for posting!

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
www.sceneitallproductions.com
erik82
You can always try it indoors. It has to have an effect when the outside temperature is lower than the drum which should be always except the first couple of seconds heating.
Olympia Cremina 2013, HG one 83mm #0083, Gene Cafe.
Also Zassenhaus grinder, Chemex, Abid Clever Dripper, Kalita Wave, Aeropress, Hario Buono, Bodum Cafetiere and Bialetti Mokapot
 
oldgearhead
The 'on-off cycles' are why I prefer 'open-loop' control over PID for roaster temperature. I prefer a system that can maintain a slowly increasing temperature during the drying phase and then quickly ramp up to first crack and then level off for the finish..If you need to automate it, rate of rise is the better option. My typical input wattages for one-pound roasts are:
Drying = 1000w with 20% reclaimed RC air.
Ramp to 1C = 1300w with 50% reclaimed RC air
Finish = 1160w with 20% reclaimed RC air.

I like to see:
1) a 3DF/5 second ROR during the ramp to 1C.
2) a 1DF/5 second ROR for the 'finish'.
3) a total of 12 minutes for the the batch.

If I had a Gene Cafe', it's heater would probably be connected to a varible auto-transformer..
oldgearhead attached the following image:
bmt_1_3.jpg

No oil on my beans...
 
Dan
OGF, FYI: Here's a neat keyboard trick. Instead of typing 3DF you can type 3°F instead. The easy way to get the degree symbol is hold down the ALT key, type 0176 on the NUMERICAL keyboard, release the ALT key.
 
http://www.intactamerica.org
erik82
I'll probably do the dimmer mod for the Gene within a month or 2 which is even better. But it's still under warranty and wanted to wait till it reached it's first birthday.
Olympia Cremina 2013, HG one 83mm #0083, Gene Cafe.
Also Zassenhaus grinder, Chemex, Abid Clever Dripper, Kalita Wave, Aeropress, Hario Buono, Bodum Cafetiere and Bialetti Mokapot
 
oldgearhead
"even better"?. A Variac can give you a boost in wattage.
a router controller or dimmer switch cannot. I would also suggest a Kill-A-watt meter, so you can read the actual wattage..
No oil on my beans...
 
gene
Erik-

I'm with you on your beginning parameters, 300 to 5:00, etc.. You're saying "When the temperature reaches between 410-428F...."
Is this measured with the GC thermometer or?

And you are saying the roasts seem more "even"?

I will be roasting outside all winter. And the technique I learned from John years ago of waiting 30 seconds past first crack seems to work wonders to keep roast from rushing toward second. But I am not dogmatic so.....would appreciate further information.
Somewhere in the 10-13th minute you are opening up the roast chamber cover for how long?

I always have a box fan running after first crack to speed cooling after hitting "Cool" somewhere before second crack. Could use it to cool as it would blow directly on drum with cover up.
 
erik82

Quote

gene wrote:

Erik-

I'm with you on your beginning parameters, 300 to 5:00, etc.. You're saying "When the temperature reaches between 410-428F...."
Is this measured with the GC thermometer or?

And you are saying the roasts seem more "even"?

I will be roasting outside all winter. And the technique I learned from John years ago of waiting 30 seconds past first crack seems to work wonders to keep roast from rushing toward second. But I am not dogmatic so.....would appreciate further information.
Somewhere in the 10-13th minute you are opening up the roast chamber cover for how long?

I always have a box fan running after first crack to speed cooling after hitting "Cool" somewhere before second crack. Could use it to cool as it would blow directly on drum with cover up.



All temperatures are temperatures as shown in the Gene display and not actual bean temperatures.

I do the drying and then ramp up. When the temp of the Gene reaches 410-428F I open the lid, which will be around 7-8 minutes total. This slows the ramp of the Gene from there on. It will take the Gene longer to get to 464-482F. My Gene most of the time hit the temp of 464-482F 2 minutes before 1C thus cycling on and off the whole time. If you open the lid at the right moment which differs per beantype you can adjust it in a way that the preset temp won't be reached (2-3F under it) when you hit 1C (for me most of the time around 12-13 minutes). Or you can close it again if the ramp up is too slow.

When I reach 1C I just turn down the temperature as I normally would and can open or close the lid again to slow down of speed up the ramp towards 2C. I always cool outside of the Gene which works so much better than cooling in the Gene. My roasts are really cold after 2 minutes of cooling with a fan and 2 sieves.


The beans have a more uniform color is what I mean with even and it has improved the taste of my roasts.

I don't know what the long term effects will be on the glass of the drum if you blow lots of cool air in winter to the drum when you end the roast and it's really hot. Maybe it'll be prone to break.
Olympia Cremina 2013, HG one 83mm #0083, Gene Cafe.
Also Zassenhaus grinder, Chemex, Abid Clever Dripper, Kalita Wave, Aeropress, Hario Buono, Bodum Cafetiere and Bialetti Mokapot
 
troposcuba
I am not sure how valid my theory is, but one of the things I noticed on my GC is that if I set the temp to say 446*, when the thermostat reaches that temp and kicks off the heater it will cycle down about 10* before it kicks the heat back on. One of the things I do when I am roasting on it and want to slow things down is to roast in steps 446*, 456*, 465* 482* etc. I will let it reach the set temp, cycle down to the low point and then advance the temp to my next setting as it starts to come back up. I figure that as long as I don't let it cycle more than once, I won't end up stalling the roast, and it does seem to slow it down a bit on the ramp up times. I suppose that you could use smaller steps and do the same thing if you felt like playing with it to see what kind of results you get.

Just something for you to play with.
Sean
 
erik82
The problem with the on/off cycles isn't stalling of the roast because the temp in the drum is still much higher than the bean temp.

Tried your trick before but didn't give me better results and becasue the Gene can only be on full power or off it doesn't make much sense. The Gene won't warm up slower when you set the temp lower and then ramp up in small steps.

For me it's slowing the ramp because it hits the target temp too quick and more heat could damage the beans. The heat absorption of the bean is slower then the ramp up of the Gene so giving it even more heat can cause scorching or tipping.
Olympia Cremina 2013, HG one 83mm #0083, Gene Cafe.
Also Zassenhaus grinder, Chemex, Abid Clever Dripper, Kalita Wave, Aeropress, Hario Buono, Bodum Cafetiere and Bialetti Mokapot
 
Gregman
I was not aware that the protective cover controled anything on the GC.
Are you saying that the cover controls the temp in some way?
I must have missed that in the manual.
Greg-
Well now........ that's not suppose to happen!
 
erik82

Quote

Gregman wrote:

I was not aware that the protective cover controled anything on the GC.
Are you saying that the cover controls the temp in some way?
I must have missed that in the manual.
Greg-


The protective lid doesn't do anything but as you may have noticed becomes warm when roasting. It's side-effect is that it traps heat more because the area around the drum is closed partially by the lid. When opening the lid the drum can radiate more heat to the surrounding air thus heating will be slower because efficiency will be lower.
Olympia Cremina 2013, HG one 83mm #0083, Gene Cafe.
Also Zassenhaus grinder, Chemex, Abid Clever Dripper, Kalita Wave, Aeropress, Hario Buono, Bodum Cafetiere and Bialetti Mokapot
 
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