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Length of roast
After a year of roasting stove top and perfecting times, temps, I feel like I'm starting all over again. This Gene Cafe roaster is much slower than the stove top method. Now when roasting on the stove if the roasts got any where over 15-16 min the coffee would taste baked. Now With the Gene I can roast up to like 20 min with no problem what gives? Is the forced air roasting more gentle than the stove top? What are the cut off times before baking would occur in the Gene roaster? I know this is a bean dependent issue (IE: SHB) but were talking generalities here. My latest profiles are preheat to 350f, 350f/5, 400/5, 450/5+ to desired roast, Dump and cool.
Well now........ that's not suppose to happen!
You are obviously going to have to try various profiles until you hit one that gives you beans that you like. The profile I use for SM Monkey Blend beans, roasted for espresso, is preheat to 350, put beans in container, 482 to 1st crack, then down to 451 to the end. With my machine, my bean quantity (300 gm), my ambient temperature, my altitude, I see white to yellowing beans at 6 minutes, tan color at 7 to 7.5, 1st crack after about ten minutes at 482, 2nd crack 1.5 to 2 mins. later at 451, and a Vienna roast after about 13-13.5 min. Based on data in another thread that recommends a 4 min. 1C to 2C interval, I am going to lower the post-1C temperature a little to stretch out the 1C to 2C interval, but, without that, I get an espresso very much to my liking. By the way, with these beans and this quantity, there is still quite a bit of chaff in the container until it it has been in the cooling phase to about 280, so I wait to bail out at that time.
Hope this helps - take notes. It looks as though you need more heat in the early phases?
Edited by Barrie on 10/07/2012 11:42 PM
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
John Despres
Yes, air roasting is different in the roaster. While the GC is a hybrid air/drum roaster, it's more an air roaster than a drum as far as heat transfer goes. Yes, I believe hot air is more a gentle roast.

Try bumping to 435 then 465 after your warming phase and see what that does for you.

Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
I should perhaps have added that, with the GC running, the line voltage at the outlet I use is about 117, an important factor.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
Ok so still getting the hang of this thing.

I have to say for ease this is much better than stovetop roasting.
However I'm not happy with the roasted coffee results yet.
The coffee tastes flat or baked compared to stovetop.

My current process is to preheat to 400.
Add beans and begin at 350 for 3 min
Then raise the heat to 400 for 3 min.
Then to 450 or 460 for 9 to 10 min.

This gives a full city roast or lighter depending on the bean.

But the thing I can't figure out is all the beans smell the same.
It's just flat without that fresh roasted coffee smell?

What am I doing wrong?
Well now........ that's not suppose to happen!
John Despres
Please post your profile with the time first crack begins and ends.
Are you letting the roast continue through first crack?
How long after first begins do you end your roast?

Nothing good happens at 350F. Stop that part. Preheat to whatever you like, but warm at 300F for 5 minutes, then continue as you have been. 300F is good for warming the beans all the way through. Anything higher begins the roasting process and you want to move past 350F and continue on to properly develop the flavors.

How long are you resting your beans? The fragrance will develop over a couple days or more.

Have fun!

Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
I'm warming to high, Ok good point John thanks.

I really can't hear first crack at all on this thing!
But the times I have....
Yellow at 5-7 min
Light brown 8-10
First crack I estimate at 12-15.
As to how long it lasts I don't know?
More than a minute or so.

For some reason second crack is easy to hear.
Well now........ that's not suppose to happen!
Resting is anywhere from 3-7 or more days.
The Harrar I have is good after 10 days but I never can wait that long.
Well now........ that's not suppose to happen!


Gregman wrote:

... I'm not happy with the roasted coffee results yet. The coffee tastes flat or baked compared to stovetop... What am I doing wrong?

Hi Gregman. The GC was my first roaster and I experienced challenges very similar to yours.

I think that the most helpful advice to you at this time is to follow Barrie’s simple suggestions. Namely: “ put beans in container, 482 to 1st crack, then down to 451 to the end.” You will be pleased by the great flavour that this simple profile yields.

Most importantly, it is vital that you figure out a way to hear 1C and 2C on the noisy GC as soon as possible. If you don’t, it will be impossible for you to master the GC, and thus produce excellent roasts on a consistent basis. Ciel
Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK�NIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
OK so here are some times.
Assume a preheat to start.

5 min at 300f
8 min at 480f
First crack
2.5 min at 460f
15.5 min total Dump and cool

Don k CR
5.5 min at 300f
8 min at 480f
First crack
3 min at 450f
Think I heard a SC?
16.5 min total Dump and cool

These roasts smell great and I can't wait to try them.
I think my problem was the warming phase temp.

The only other thing that has me curious is the amount of time the temp changes take. I can go from cold to 300 in 3-4 minutes. To ramp after the warming stage 300 to 480 it takes 8 minutes! That seems like a lot of time for a half pound charge? I assume the read out is close to the exhaust air temps but maybe that should be measured? Of course I know we are not talking bean mass temp.
Edited by Gregman on 10/29/2012 2:40 AM
Well now........ that's not suppose to happen!
John Despres
Great to hear! I'm looking forward to your tasting reports.ThumbsUp

Keep it up and have fun!

Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
Gregman, FWIW, here is something I posted in another thread, re hearing the cracks.
I don't know if this thread is still of interest but thought I would add a post, updating what I have settled on for the moment. Routinely, I use the soundAMP R app on the iPad on which I also record my data with the Roastmaster app. My particular setup gives me 1st crack somewhere in the 10 to 11 minute range so, somewhere about 8 minutes I start listening to what is going on with headphones attached to the iPad, and with my hearing aids at the setting that diminishes background noise. This gives me a minute or two of listening to the "baseline noise" before the cracks are added. The iPad is propped against the side of the GC, so that the top of it, where the mike orifice is located, is level with the gap below the transparent safety cover. The noises here are much louder and more interpretable than around the (newer large) chaff collector. This works pretty well for me and, although I am sure it could be improved, the arrangement seems to be the best I can come up with. If anyone has come across new options since the earlier posts I would love to read about them. I must have done about fifty roasts with this set up.

With further experience, I am hearing 1C in the 8:45 to 9:30 range (SM Monkey Blend).
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
So those few batches did not work out so well either.
The coffee is ok as in just ok.
Friends and family love it but I know something is wrong.

I have always thought that baked coffee can come from over roasting.
In practice this has appeared with problems of time or cooling.
My struggle was always in the end of the roasting process.

However after a little digging I found someone here suggested that baking can also be a result of extended warming times. Brilliant!

Roasted a few today with out a bean warm up phase.
The results were tremendous. Good coffee smell and taste again.
My Gene Cafe takes 8+ minutes to get from 350 to 460.
Temps in the air do not hit 400 until after 5 minutes.
So theoretically the beans are warming for 5 minutes anyway.

I'm hitting FC at 10 to 12 minutes stopping the roast at the 15 minute mark.
When FC arrives I can drop the temp to 440 or lower and keep the roast light, Or keep it high and shoot for espresso.

Anyway much thanks to all here for their help.
I've been playing with this thing for a month and was starting to lose hope.
I even considered going back to my whirly pop, never again!

Let the good times roll.
Edited by Gregman on 11/03/2012 11:50 PM
Well now........ that's not suppose to happen!
Had the same problem here with my last 2KG of Lintong Batak. Had them before from a different supplier and nailed the profile. Got the beans from my current supplier and used the same profile but extremely baked flavours. Last time I used a different/hotter profile which worked better but still not very good.

Roasted them yesterday without the drying phase. Just warm the drum and straight away go full power to 480F. The smell this morning from the beans was perfect. Still have to try them but should be right now. the roast also looked better and more uniform.

What I think, is that there's something wrong with the beans when this happens. Maybe they haven't got the right moisture content because they're old or stored improperly. Warming then gets out all the moisture instead of reducing it before blasting full power.
Edited by erik82 on 11/05/2012 9:44 AM
Olympia Cremina 2013, HG one 83mm #0083, Gene Cafe.
Also Zassenhaus grinder, Chemex, Abid Clever Dripper, Kalita Wave, Aeropress, Hario Buono, Bodum Cafetiere and Bialetti Mokapot
just based on my 20 or so roasts, I am also deleting the warming phase. Five minutes at 300 then to 470 or so does not get me to yellow until 8 or 9 minutes total. I spoke to local commercial roasters and their profiles have steady ramp up without an extended warming phase. I just like the coffee better that way. wh
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