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pisanoal
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· 05/27/2020 10:14 AM
Anyone else have issues seeing the whole window of a thread when accessing from a mobile phone? Any fixes?

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Morning Ed, I haven't done any green coffee hoarding yet but am hoping the supplies don't end up like the toilet paper isles!

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Hey Ed. Thanks. roar

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· 03/31/2020 11:21 AM
Hey quarantined home roasters! I hope you have great coffee! If they have a run on coffee, I hope you're set with your great home roast! Find me on Facebook! Ed Needham

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Patchy roasts of guat Palo blanco, thoughts?
jm1na
Hi all just practising with my newly acquired Gene.
I'm getting some really patchy looking beans with the Guat palo blanco i'm using. Very chaffy bean so I'm wondering if that's the culprit? I got a much better roast with a guat injerto.
My latest roast was
preheated drum to 140
4 min @ 300
4 min @ 350
3 min @ 400
2 min @ 425
then 460 to 1st crack which was 16 min. Dropped then.
This might result in a baked roast, but I wanted to eliminate the possibility of too high temps at the front.
Any thoughts? Could it just be the chaff blackening the bean?
Oh, the amount was 227g
I started with 280g and kept dropping the quantiy.

thanks!
 
John Despres
I can't find this coffee anywhere. While most coffees from Guatemala are wet processed, I wonder if this one is dry processed. Do you know which it is? While rare, there are DP coffees from Guatemala. In general, some coffees have much more chaff than others.

Yes, I think your temps are too low. After your warming stage, jump to 460 or 465F. Once you hear first crack, (Can you? Some have difficulty with the Gene Cafe) drop to 435F and choose your ending time after another two minutes have passed.

Have fun!

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
www.sceneitallproductions.com
jm1na
Thanks John, it does seem to be a fairly rare coffee. I'm lucky that here in Vancouver, the roasters are able to get some interesting beans that they offer to the public.
I forgot to ask if this was a dry processed bean, but it must be by the amount of chaff that is still on the beans.
Ok, I will try your recommendations and see what results I get. And yes, I can hear the first crack although a it's little challenging with the range hood fan going.

cheers

Ron
 
jm1na
Well just tried two roasts one of the guat pable blanco and one of the injerto and both looked a little scorched at the temps recommended. Drum pre heated to 200, beans roasted at 465, first crack happened around 435 and 12 minutes into the roast. I then backed the temp to 445 and dropped about 2 minutes after first crack, before 2nd. So the temp never got to 465 before I had to back the temp off. Talking with the wife, she says that she has to take 30 degrees off all of her baking recipes otherwise stuff burns in our oven. So could this be an issue of being at sea level? We're right on the west coast.
My next roasts will be tried at a 435 max and see when the first crack occurs. I have a feeling that the beens are getting too hot, too fast.
 
John Despres
I think I wasn't very clear - The warming stage is with the beans in the drum.

preheaet 4 min at 300F
Add beans to drum
Warm beans for 4-5 minutes at 300F
Bump to 465F at 4-5 minutes
Drop to 435 at first crack
End at your choosing

The warming stage or some call it soaking, is to get the beans fairly evenly warmed and ready to take on the higher heat. The beans will roast more evenly with a warming stage.

Give that a try.

And perhaps your altitude does indeed make a difference. I'm at 700 feet - maybe that difference matters. Is your oven electric?

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
www.sceneitallproductions.com
jm1na
Thanks John, I will indeed try that formula next. And yes, electric oven.

cheers

Ron
 
jm1na
Well. amuch closer roast! Not quite there yet, though. Pre heated at 300 for 4 minutes then heated beans at 300 for 5 minutes, ramped up to 465 at that point and first crack was at 14 minutes, dropped to 435 and ended the roast at 19 minutes. I wanted to get it to second crack to know where to end the roast next time, but it never got there. So perhaps I'll only go to 4 minutes at 300 the next time and get the heat ramping up a minute earlier? The beans do look more uniform though which is a good sign.
 
John Despres
That will be a good experiment. Here's another one - Try dropping to 445F instead of 335F as well. 335F may be too low for you. I can still hit second if I drop to 335F after about 30 seconds of first crack

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
www.sceneitallproductions.com
jm1na
Will do, thanks!
 
jm1na
Well an update. I've been getting some decent roasts with the palo blanco, 4 minutes 300 warm up, 4 minutes 300 heating beans, 465 to first crack, usually happening around 13-14 minutes then reducing heat to 445 and letting it run to second crack just to see where that is. Usually around 17-18 minutes.
Tried a couple of roasts with kona cofee at the same settings with similar results.
Just wondering John, if you think the time to second crack is still taking too long. I tried bringing the temp down to 455 today after a rolling first crack with about a 30 second shortening of the time to the beginning of second crack(17:30)
 
John Despres
Hi, Ron.

All in all, I think your times look fine. Perhaps the time to second is a tad short. At this point, you start tweaking to find your favorite profile for each bean. Try a warming first stage of 5 minutes instead of four. Each set of numbers can be tweaked to your personal satisfaction. Heep playing, making small changes now. I also suggest you make only one change per roast from now on. If you make two adjustments, which one was the change that ruined/helped that roast?

However, now that things are working better, the proof is in the cup. Since I cannot taste the coffee, it's all up to you. How does it taste?

You're doing great!

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
www.sceneitallproductions.com
jm1na
Thanks John, the flavour of the Guat isn't bad, just a little lacking in definition at the end, the taste all seems to be at the front and then gets a little sour near the end, if if know what I mean. Maybe not enough development in the roast, maybe to quick at the beginning, not sure which will change that. The second crack is coming as late as 3 minutes after first on some of these roasts. Maybe that's baking the bean a little and I'm still trying to figure out where to drop the roast before it gets to second C.
The Kona will be ready to taste tomorrow.
 
ciel-007

Quote

jm1na wrote:

... the flavour of the Guat isn't bad, just a little lacking in definition at the end, the taste all seems to be at the front and then gets a little sour near the end, if if know what I mean. Maybe not enough development in the roast, maybe to quick at the beginning, not sure which will change that. The second crack is coming as late as 3 minutes after first on some of these roasts. Maybe that's baking the bean a little and I'm still trying to figure out where to drop the roast before it gets to second C...


In my experience, the GC is a difficult roaster for any newbie to master for two reasons: 1) it does not allow you to know the temperature of the bean mass during roasting, and 2) it is not always easy to hear the suble sounds during first and second cracks. Further, using roasting profiles employed by others does not usually work because each GC roaster has slightly different heating characteristics; each GC will roast in its own peculiar way because of the influence of many unique environmental variables (wide ranging ambient temperatures, altitudes, line voltages, coffee types, bean masses, etc…)

My solution was to develop a way to figure out the approximate Bean Mass Temperature inside my GC as the timer counted down. This is a manual exercise that allows you to perfect your roasting skills; it relies in part on information posted here at HRO, and in part on information provided by your own unique GC roaster. It also involves developing a roasting profile that requires an elapsed time of 4 minutes between first and second cracks. In my experience, this is the minimum amount of time required in order to allow maximum flavour development in the roasted beans. This method will eventually allow you to choose the temperature at which you wish to drop the beans before second crack begins. Here is a more detailed explanation of what I did:

http://homeroasters.org/php/forum/vie...post_38245
Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK�NIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
 
jm1na
Well I'm about ready to give up. I cannot for the life of me get a drinkable roast out of this beast! Sour, baked taste. The only one close to drinkable was a Kona that went into second crack so it's oily. I don't particularly like that, but it's better than the other roasts. I always drink lighter roasts from our local roasters and I'm trying to replicate that so that details in the bean can be tasted. So my last roast was heated the roaster to 300 for 4 minutes, dropped in 250g of kona(I've tried 226g with no diff) heated the beans at 300 for 4 minutes then ramped to full temp until 1st crack, usually around 13 minutes then dropped to 445-450 and run to about 4 minutes max, no 2nd crack then dropped into collander without cool down and cooled outside.
Both the guatemalan and the kona are horrible and I've varied the warm up time up and down with no difference.
 
John Despres
Don't give up. Kona can be a tricky one.

I see a couple problems. First, the 250 gram volume was too much. If your beans were oily, you most likely did hit 2nd crack. That many beans will take the exothermic reaction to high too quickly. Adding beans speeds up the roast as they will heat themselves very quickly once they reach a certain point. Go back to 226 gram batches every time no matter what. Keep that variable the same.

Second, your temps were too high for the soft beans of Hawaii. Your preheat and warming stage were fine, but setting your high temp to 882F was too much. You kept piling on the heat. This needs a more gentle heat through the entire roast and you drop should have been lower. The Kona is a very different animal from the Guatemala.

For Kona, I recommend setting to 460F and at 1st crack drop to 435F.

By setting too high, the beans continue heating at such a fast rate, they are almost unstoppable. With a lower heat setting, and once the roaster has reached that set temp and has started cycling on and off, the beans will be brought up at a slower rate. Maybe even try setting your high at 450F with these very soft beans.

Keep trying. It ain't always easy, but once you get the knack, it's well worth it!

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
www.sceneitallproductions.com
jm1na
Thanks John, I'll try that. But my Guatemalan I roasted with the temps we were discussing earlier in the thread and at 226 grams are just as bad tasting. I'm surprised I could be that far off. At least my roasts in my little popcorn popper were drinkable.
Oh well, I'll try a few more before admitting defeat and going back to buying my coffee from our roasters which luckily in Vancouver are plentiful.

cheers
 
ciel-007

Quote

jm1na wrote:

Well I'm about ready to give up. I cannot for the life of me get a drinkable roast out of this beast! Sour, baked taste... I always drink lighter roasts from our local roasters and I'm trying to replicate that so that details in the bean can be tasted.


Please don’t give up just yet. I myself spent a lot of time, and wasted a lot of coffee, before finally getting good results from my GC. In my experience, it’s almost impossible to obtain a great roast until one begins to get a relatively accurate feeling for the bean mass temperature (BMT) inside the GC. However, should you find the BMT approach I suggested earlier too involved, there is another procedure that is much quicker, albeit less reliable.

This alternative approach was suggested to me by a “local roaster” during my early roasting days. It involves terminating the roast based mainly on bean color. To do this, you first place a sample of your favorite roasted beans from your “local roaster” in a small transparent container; then you hold this container next to the large Pyrex drum of the GC during roasting. When your eyes tell you that the color of the beans inside both containers is identical, it’s the time to dump the beans from the GC. I found the bean color matching technique helpful in building my confidence during my trials with the GC.
Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK�NIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
 
jm1na
Hi all, well after several attempts I sold the gene off to someone else in October. I went back to my little pop corn popper and immediately got drinkable roasts. Maybe there was something wrong with that one, but I had enough.
Oh well, nothing ventured...

cheers
 
Barrie
Jmina's experience and reaction to it is interesting. I suppose it represents a relative disinterest in the process as opposed to the product, which while understandable may lead to frustration-based failure in the early phases. There is just no question that it takes a lot of roasting to reach satisfaction, if indeed one ever arrives at a point where further tweaking is not part of the game? My only experience has been with the Fresh Roast and then the GC. I found the FR easier because I could hear the cracks perfectly well. My hearing loss is a problem with the GC, but not an insurmountable one. After some months and many pounds of SM's products, I told my wife today that I think this is just about where I want it. A first class cup of espresso. Of course, I will be making an adjustment in the next batch roasted. ThumbsUp
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
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