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snwcmpr
10/18/2019 2:37 PM
Eth Nat Yirg Idido roasted yesterday. I dropped some off at a friends coffee shop. In a few days he will brew it and tell me what he thinks. We believe my roasts are better than what we buy.

snwcmpr
10/16/2019 2:52 PM
Thank you for all you guys do.

JackH
10/15/2019 2:02 AM
They seem to be after the shoutbox. They have been removed. I don't see anything in the forums.

snwcmpr
10/14/2019 3:27 PM
We have been hacked. A whole lot of posts that have filled up the whole forum.

snwcmpr
10/10/2019 4:49 AM
Honduras Royal Reserve today.

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Another 1.5kg or 3lb drum roaster from scratch
allenb
The EXA Star series would be perfect for our application as it doesn't require an interface board to allow receiving a typical PID controller output (0-10VDC, 4-20Ma) but this is supposedly only available to manufacturers for using on an end product. We can buy them as a replacement part at a huge markup but one would need to know what products use them.

I have some calls in to a couple of maxitrol distributors to see if we can get around this. It's a real sad state of affairs when you can buy one of these in France or Germany as a non-OEM but not here in the US where the dam things are made!

You won't need the CV200 safety valve with the way you'll be setting things up with the standing pilot.

Going manual for now is a good way to go. I always suggest for people to stay manual for as long as it takes to get a good handle on running their machine. Most of the time they end up staying manual after seeing how much easier it is to make changes in real time. I'll try and nail down suppliers and cost for the M420H and SC11-B-Selectra-Signal-Conditioner over the next few days and will post results.

Allen
Edited by allenb on 07/07/2016 11:42 AM
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
oldgrumpus
I usually find that eBay has the best prices for things I am looking for... if it's listed. Presently, the M420 has been listing for $90 USD. But since we are looking for the M420H and none are listed on eBay, the best price I could find was $122.95 at SupplyHouse.com (with free shipping) http://www.supply...ropane-gas
Espresso: Franke Ecolino
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Old fire extinguisher with a crank, over a crab cooker, now building a drum roaster.
 
allenb
That's in the $ range I've found as well for the valve. It's unfortunate that the non-H model only has a maximum output of 7" H2O while the "H" models go up to 11".

It's possible that you could make the non-H valve work. I don't know of any reason why a modulation range of say 1.5" to 7" wouldn't do the job. You might give it a try if the price is quite a bit lower than at Supply House. If you have any problem getting the valve from Suppy House, Industrial Controls Distributors, LLC can sell them. I verified this yesterday and they also carry the SC11B interface board for around $80.
Industrial Controls site is not easy to find the valve with their search feature but they carry them in their line.

FYI, depending on what size orifice will be supplied with your burner, you might have to drill it to get the right BTU output but this is not difficult to do. Once you find out what size it is, we can run it through a BTU calc to see if it needs tweaking.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
allenb
As far as what I will use to control the modulating valve... I have not really thought that far ahead. I am open to suggestion, but my thinking was that I would vary the input voltage to the modulating valve with a knob and "upgrade" the roaster after using it manually for a while.


To control the M420 without the interface board you can use one of these to supply the manual "dial" control:

https://www.circu...5w-24.html

And, for the "dial" control use one of these:

http://www.ebay.c...1251584891

You can mount this as you would any variable pot through the sheet metal face of the controls area of your roaster and just add a control knob. With an input of 24 VDC you would top out at around 21 volts at full rotation which would be just right for the needs of the Maxitrol valve.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
oldgrumpus
With an input of 24 VDC you would top out at around 21 volts at full rotation which would be just right for the needs of the Maxitrol valve.


That is absolutely perfect.

But would the M420 deliver enough BTU's being a lower pressure valve than the M420H?
Espresso: Franke Ecolino
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Old fire extinguisher with a crank, over a crab cooker, now building a drum roaster.
 
allenb
I just spoke with the Maxitrol rep for Colorado a few minutes ago and received some bad news. I had him decipher the Maxitrol min/max flow rate chart for me and it appears the lowest flow rate for the Selectra line is 5 cubic feet/hour which at 2500 btu/cubic foot comes to 12,500 btu/hour which is equivalent to 3600 watts. You'll need a lot less burner output than that at various stages of a roast in a 3 lb drum roaster.

He promised me he would do some more research and see if Maxitrol had any other valves that might have lower min flow rates.

It might be worth buying one and see if by using a lower input pressure (less than 11") you might be able to trick it into doing a lower min flow rate. That would require buying an adjustable regulator and I'm not aware of one that adjusts that low.

More research needed!

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
oldgrumpus
it appears the lowest flow rate for the Selectra line is 5 cubic feet/hour which at 2500 btu/cubic foot comes to 12,500 btu/hour which is equivalent to 3600 watts

Yes, that is bad news. If they can't find another solution, I'm not opposed to modulation using an array of several small solenoid operated valves. I have them on hand already as they are surplus that I obtained years ago.

Here's the info on the valves: Grainger still sells them. Not cheap, but for me they are free and I have more than enough of them for the project.
Ingersoll Rand CAT44p-012-D-G

https://www.grain...08194705:s

The image with the little green and red valve is a Numatics which I also have enough of for the project if they are a better choice. They are tiny which might work out even if used without an adjustment screw or needle valve.
oldgrumpus attached the following images:
img_2459.jpg img_2460.jpg img_2457.jpg img_2462.jpg

Edited by oldgrumpus on 07/08/2016 9:15 AM
Espresso: Franke Ecolino
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Old fire extinguisher with a crank, over a crab cooker, now building a drum roaster.
 
allenb
I looked up the CV on the solenoid you linked to at Graingers which is .056. This will allow 5 cubic feet per hour at 1/2 psi so it will definitely handle the necessary flow rate.

If you decide to go the alternating two state (hi-lo flow), here's Lylabrown's test setup using one solenoid and two needle valves on a video he did a while back which should be very effective.

http://forum.home...post_51800

I would not cycle the solenoid faster than once every 2 seconds with a drum roaster. The coffee will never see a temp fluctuation at this cycle rate. If I were to build a roaster using this setup I would have the two needle valve knobs and pressure gauge mounted up front for easy access.

The solenoid he is using (Clippard ET-2-12-H) is able to cycle rapidly without overheating the coil but not sure how a standard solenoid as you have will tolerate it. If you have to buy one, they're not too expensive.

Question, are you set on eventually going the automation route? If not, I would seriously consider using a nice, high quality needle valve with appropriate CV value to work with 11" H2O and a good panel mount gauge and use it with your standing pilot/safety valve setup. This will give you optimum control with safety built-in and is how 99% of drum roaster users operate their roasters. As I'm sure you are aware, trying to automate a drum roaster in a profile following manner is nearly impossible due to the inherent hysteresis between heat source and beans.

I am most likely going to eventually get rid of my two-state valve setup and go to a nice Generant needle valve as I stopped datalogging and don't require the electronics anymore.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
allenb
The Ambex YM2 drum roaster uses the Maxitrol M420H and from what I'm seeing, most people don't roast more than a 4 lb batch in them which is close to the batch size you're aiming for. I can't see why the valve wouldn't work for your application if they work for a 2 kg batch.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
oldgrumpus
Question, are you set on eventually going the automation route? If not, I would seriously consider using a nice, high quality needle valve with appropriate CV value to work with 11" H2O and a good panel mount gauge and use it with your standing pilot/safety valve setup.

I think that has great appeal. I love the idea of a manual or analog setup for many reasons. Using the M420H certainly would have some advantages, but the setup described in the quote is so much simpler. Love it.

I can't see why the valve wouldn't work for your application if they work for a 2 kg batch.

Actually I was wondering if the M420 would work as opposed to the M420H because those can be had for about $30 less. But at this point the notion of a manual valve and gauge makes more sense to me.
Espresso: Franke Ecolino
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Old fire extinguisher with a crank, over a crab cooker, now building a drum roaster.
 
oldgrumpus
It looks like we're much closer to a final design for the gas chain. The gauge is from this website:
http://www.aicons...vAod-y0N6w

How's this look?
oldgrumpus attached the following image:
gas_chain.jpg

Espresso: Franke Ecolino
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Old fire extinguisher with a crank, over a crab cooker, now building a drum roaster.
 
allenb
Looks good to me.

Here's a link to a valve with an appropriate CV for your application at the Generant valve site. Click on the flow coefficient tab and look at the standard stem model. We're shooting for a CV of around .099 or round to .1 at a few turns which will give you around 7 cubic ft/hr maximum flow with an input to the valve of 11" H2O (.4 psi) and a downstream pressure leaving the valve of around 7" H2O (.25 psi). 7 cubic ft/hr equates to around 17,000 btu/hr which is equivalent to 5kw which will give you plenty of heat for a 3-4 lb drum roaster with a little headroom :

http://www.genera.../fnv.shtml

You can probably find a good deal on a similar valve on ebay but make sure you find one with a CV/turns value similar to the one in the link to ensure you have good control.

I did a price check for this valve and it would be hard to beat their price! This one is brass with 1/8" female pipe on inlet and outlet:

http://calibratio...;bc=0|2225

Allen
allenb attached the following image:
fnv_chart.jpg

Edited by allenb on 07/09/2016 3:13 PM
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
oldgrumpus
The "titanium" burner I ordered arrived and although of reasonably nice quality, is not titanium, nor is it stainless. It appears to be mild steel sheet metal because it is strongly magnetic. I guess my expectations were too high Grin

Amongst the photos of the burner is one view of the input end which I didn't think about before ordering because it wasn't clear to me what if anything would be needed. Advice needed. It looks like an orifice and supporting mount will be needed... help!


I'm also trying to select a needle valve. Right now I'm leaning toward a Generant FNV in stainless or one from the Screwed Bonnet product line (also a Generant). The Screwed Bonnet is similar to the FNV series, but uses less rotations to open and close.
oldgrumpus attached the following image:
img_2474.jpg

Edited by oldgrumpus on 07/12/2016 9:21 AM
Espresso: Franke Ecolino
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Old fire extinguisher with a crank, over a crab cooker, now building a drum roaster.
 
oldgrumpus
"Titanium" burner.
oldgrumpus attached the following images:
img_2473.jpg img_2471.jpg

Espresso: Franke Ecolino
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Old fire extinguisher with a crank, over a crab cooker, now building a drum roaster.
 
allenb
It looks like an orifice and supporting mount will be needed... help!



In a typical burner setup, the orifice will be screwed into a pipe fitting (tee or 90) and the orifice or jet assembly will support the inlet end of the burner (sticking through the hole of the "U" bracket on your burner) and a sheet metal bracket will support the weight of the other end. The bracket should be arranged as to not allow the burner to slide away from the burner jet. I doubt they sell mounting hardware but thin sheet metal should allow you to make one relatively easy.

Looks like the jet is reasonably priced.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
oldgrumpus
I have nearly all the parts now for the gas system with the exception of the Generant needle valve which is 6 weeks for delivery!

While waiting, I'm pondering how to appropriately size the exhaust system. Any thoughts on that? I could wing-it, but would rather go in confident that it's a good design.
Espresso: Franke Ecolino
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Old fire extinguisher with a crank, over a crab cooker, now building a drum roaster.
 
oldgrumpus
Uploaded a video

Espresso: Franke Ecolino
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Old fire extinguisher with a crank, over a crab cooker, now building a drum roaster.
 
oldgrumpus
Here's a new video showing a test of the drum and vanes.


Espresso: Franke Ecolino
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Old fire extinguisher with a crank, over a crab cooker, now building a drum roaster.
 
oldgrumpus
The back side and motor. No structure yet, just checking out some of the mechanics..
.

Espresso: Franke Ecolino
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Old fire extinguisher with a crank, over a crab cooker, now building a drum roaster.
 
oldgrumpus
Some photos:

https://goo.gl/ph...Da6K4wfqw5
Edited by JackH on 01/15/2017 9:15 AM
Espresso: Franke Ecolino
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Old fire extinguisher with a crank, over a crab cooker, now building a drum roaster.
 
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