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allenb
OfflineAdmin
· 04/02/2020 4:50 AM
Morning Ed, I haven't done any green coffee hoarding yet but am hoping the supplies don't end up like the toilet paper isles!

snwcmpr
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· 03/31/2020 2:53 PM
Hey Ed. Thanks. roar

homeroaster
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· 03/31/2020 11:21 AM
Hey quarantined home roasters! I hope you have great coffee! If they have a run on coffee, I hope you're set with your great home roast! Find me on Facebook! Ed Needham

snwcmpr
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· 03/25/2020 11:49 AM
New Rochelle in the news. I think of you every time I hear it. ... Please stay safe.

allenb
OfflineAdmin
· 03/21/2020 7:36 AM
Good morning homeroasters morning Everyone is hopefully staying healthy through this. Hang in there and stay safe!

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optimum temperatures for roasting
Barrie

Quote

simagic wrote:

Back to temperatures on the GENE. I would have to guess (and certainly may be wrong), that most people reading the threads in the Gene cafe forum, do not have some sort of temperature reading device "somehow" connected to and reading the "internal temp" of the beans. We all, (except those few), are strictly relying on the machines readout for the temp.


I have been away from the forum for two or three weeks and so did not pick up on this before. I think that what you say makes a lot of sense, Simagic - constant heat (assuming ambient is constant) versus time would produce a predictable curve. Many of the other variables have been discussed and, of course, preheating is important in the slope at the start.
I have only run about 75 roasts so far, about 50 withe the GC, and so am anything but an expert. On the other hand, I have made some observations. The first roast was with some throw-away beans that I started from cold, with a setting of 482, and ran through to charcoal, taking note of what happened at each stage. It turned out that a Kill-A-Watt on the line showed my voltage drops to 117 to 118 with the heating on. Probably as a result, my roasts are slowish and, for that reason, I do not go through a drying phase. My routine (targeting for espresso brewing) now is to preheat to 350, then load the beans and start with a setting of 482. As soon as 1C starts I turn the heat down to 451. All events are recorded on Roastmaster software on my iPad. This provides not only the profile that one is using but a curve of the minute-by-minute temperatures that I enter, plus the times of 1C and 2C starting. This can be superimposed on previous curves in the background, and one thing is constant from one roast to the next - the temperature vs. time curve. These superimpose exactly. Thus the conditions are reproducible.
1C occurs somewhere about 11 min, or a little before, and 2C around 12:45, both depending on the bean (I roast a constant 226 grams). I am hard of hearing, which may influence things, but in addition to the cracks I find myself looking at the beans, smelling the aromas at the various stages, and watching the chaff fly off (not very useful and very bean-dependent). The combination now allows a fair level of confidence in what I am doing, and I recognize, for example, the substantial difference in cupping SM Monkey Blend taken to FC+ (very fruity) versus full Vienna (more body and malty flavor), the change occurring over a range of probably less than a minute with the profile and particular roaster that I use.
Now, the main value of the Roastmaster data is an immediate comparison with past roasts which reassures me that the conditions are as I would expect. Any change in the circumstances of the roast would then be immediately obvious. Certainly, I am accumulating a database that would be very useful were I to change the settings.
Edited by Barrie on 07/27/2012 12:02 AM
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
simagic
Hi Barrie.Simagic here.....You say .....
"1C occurs somewhere about 11 min, or a little before, and 2C around 12:45, both depending on the bean (I roast a constant 226 grams). ".............. This is what I was referring to in my previous thread when I said. ""in additition ( if I may), some threads speak about very exact "times" for 1c/2c or etc. Well, that's the times for 'their" machine. I would think, by reading many of these threads, that not everyones machine heats up at the same exact time. Therefore 11 minutes and 45 seconds (for an arbitrary figure) on one persons machine is meaningless to another. I would think that i would get the best info by hearing at what "TEMPS' the "machine" was reading out at 1c/2c or etc ( for an equal amount of green coffee) ( 8oz. for an example). I know that there would be many variables for coffee type/altitude/ hard or soft bean/ etc. But, at least it would be something to be able to relate to, as we all (owners of the GC) have the digital readout to look at....""

When I hear someone say 1C is at ( a given time ....ie 11 minutes in your case), it's meaningless ( to me). Does my machine heat at the same rate yours does. Did you preheat to 300?..325? 350? 400?. Did you preheat for 3 min.? 4 min.? 5 min.? 10 min??? After preheating, did it take you a minute to load up or 2 minutes to load up?? How much did the temp drop in that 1-2 minutes????. OR.........did you not preheat at all. If after you preheated , did you warm the beans for another 5min?..7min? 10 min?. There are SO MANY VARIABLES in one persons machine and what they did in that time to reach 1c or 2c , that giving a time is meaningless. ( or at least to me) . It's the readout on the digital display that i can relate to for 1c and 2c. Anything else ( personally), I just skip right by as I cannot at all relate to their machines heating times and what they've done prior to reaching that time. What ( again, for me) is what was the digital readout on the GC when 1c or 2c happens. That's all I can relate to...
Edited by simagic on 07/27/2012 6:30 AM
 
John Despres
Okay, since we seem to have meaningless information you cannot use, here's what you need to do.

Next 20 roasts:
Cold roaster start
Load beans, 226 grams every time
Set to 482F
Roast to desired completion
Keep detailed roasting and tasting notes of each batch.

Next 20 roasts after that (21 through 40)
Preheat to 300F for 5 minutes
Load beans, 226 grams every time, into heated drum as fast as you can
Set to 482F
Roast to desired completion
Keep detailed roasting and tasting notes of each batch.

Next 20 roasts after that (41 through 60)
Preheat to 300F for 5 minutes
Load beans, 226 grams every time, into heated drum as fast as you can
Warm at 300F for 5 minutes
At 5 minutes bump to 482F
Roast to desired completion
Keep detailed roasting and tasting notes of each batch.

Next 20 roasts (61-80)
Preheat to 300F for 5 minutes
Load beans, 226 grams every time, into heated drum as fast as you can
Set to 460F
Roast to desired completion
Keep detailed roasting and tasting notes of each batch.

This will help you learn your roaster.

Report back.

JD
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
www.sceneitallproductions.com
simagic

Quote

John Despres wrote:

Okay, since we seem to have meaningless information you cannot use, here's what you need to do.

Next 20 roasts:
Cold roaster start
Load beans, 226 grams every time
Set to 482F
Roast to desired completion
Keep detailed roasting and tasting notes of each batch.

Next 20 roasts after that (21 through 40)
Preheat to 300F for 5 minutes
Load beans, 226 grams every time, into heated drum as fast as you can
Set to 482F
Roast to desired completion
Keep detailed roasting and tasting notes of each batch.

Next 20 roasts after that (41 through 60)
Preheat to 300F for 5 minutes
Load beans, 226 grams every time, into heated drum as fast as you can
Warm at 300F for 5 minutes
At 5 minutes bump to 482F
Roast to desired completion
Keep detailed roasting and tasting notes of each batch.

Next 20 roasts (61-80)
Preheat to 300F for 5 minutes
Load beans, 226 grams every time, into heated drum as fast as you can
Set to 460F
Roast to desired completion
Keep detailed roasting and tasting notes of each batch.

This will help you learn your roaster.

Report back.

JD


I, personally, am not having any problem with my roasting profiles and techniques. I'm happy with the way I have done this for the last 5 or so years ( Warm drum-350-5min. / warm beans-300-5min. / raise temp-471 til 1c / lower temp- after 1c to extend time before 2c / decide to go to 2c or not . My point was ( since I enjoy being a contributor ( and receiver) of information on this site, that ( I personally feel) that giving times is irrelevant ( per my "opinion" on previous thread) and that digital temperature readout is the info (I feel) is most relevant and usable.
 
John Despres
Ah, got it! I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying.

Time is more important to me. Quite simply, here's why:

I can hit first crack with the high set at 425F and I can hit first crack with the high set at 465F. One coffee will roast much longer but only one will taste much better.

JD
Edited by John Despres on 07/27/2012 2:41 PM
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
www.sceneitallproductions.com
simagic

Quote

John Despres wrote:

Ah, got it! I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying.

Time is more important to me. Quite simply, here's why:

I can hit first crack with the high set at 425F and I can hit first crack with the high set at 465F. One coffee will roast much longer but only one will taste much better.

JD


Yes, "BUT" that time (that you say is "more important") is the time for "YOUR" machine and dependent upon what "YOU" have done prior to reaching 1c...( does "your" machine heat up faster than mine?, slower than mine?)....( did you preheat..what temp/how long?).......( did you warm beans...what temp/how long?)........ That time is only "relevant to YOU" and yes, when I'm keeping "MY" log for "ME" , certainly I record "MY TIMES", but they are the times that are dependent on what 'I HAVE" personally done prior to 1c. Those "TIMES" that I've recorded are valuable only to "ME" for my next roasting. What I'm trying to convey in my previous threads is that those " TIME Statistics" that people post, are irrelevant, to "OTHERS" (unless they are matching "absolutely perfectly" that persons procedures to reach 1c), and (their machine heats up at an identical speed) So when someone posts "THEIR" particular times, as I mention, I feel it is irrelevant to others. Once again, the temperature of 1c on the GC ( of a specific individual bean) is what is probably more informative to me.
An example ( and I'm just making up numbers here to make my point),, If I were to say...."My Guatmalan Antiqua beans hit 1c at 461 on my temp digital readout and my Brazilians hit 1c at 455 on my temp digital readout. These are my thoughts....Dennis
 
allenb
Howdy Dennis,

It's definitely a fact as you've stated that without all things being equal it's impossible to recreate a time/bean temp profile using others ET time/temps. Your point is received with clarity!

Even with this being the case, all input from Gene users concerning what has worked for them is useful and gives us a starting point which can then be tweaked to provide the results we're after.

The Gene is a fine roaster and is capable of excellent roasts although without a means to read BT presents unique challenges that I'm sure will continue to be addressed in the future.

Keep posting as more valuable Gene tips are found.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
ciel-007

Quote

allenb wrote:
It's definitely a fact... that without all things being equal it's impossible to recreate a time/bean temp profile using others ET time/temps... The Gene is a fine roaster... although without a means to read BT presents unique challenges that I'm sure will... be addressed in the future.


Allen, I agree with you that it may be unrealistic for a GC owner to expect great results when using “others ET time/temps”. Your reply got me thinking about the “unique challenges” that owners face because their GC is “without a means to read BT”. Your words prompted me to think about ways in which it might be possible to resolve the challenge. The best idea I came up with was a technique that should allow most GC owners to estimate the BMT in their particular GC roaster, during the most critical moments of the roast. The technique is explained here:

http://homeroasters.org/php/forum/vie...post_38245

I wish to thank Allen for giving me the idea to draft the above post. Also, I encourage GC owners to experiement with the above technique, and to post the results of their trials. After 1C has been reached, I would like to see what is the most frequent target temperature to which the GC dial must be set (for a duration of 4 minutes) in order to reach 2C. Ciel
Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK�NIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
 
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