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11/04/2019 1:58 AM
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Amplified cracks etc.
Bmb
Dear Barrie,
I also can't hear a thing from the Gene.
Could hear it loud and clear, when roasting in my oven.
Following your lead I also installed the Sound Amp R in my iPad, it really amplifies very well but I still can't distinguish the cracks from the rolling beans.
How do you position the "keys" of the app ?
I tried several but couldn't decide which one was best ...
The one I liked best is pushing the lower one to the left, at least it stifles the ventilator noise.
 
Barrie
If you go to the Help section and then scroll down you will see the information about tuning. 1st crack is somewhere about the 10kHz frequency and so what I do is to leave all the tuning buttons to the left, except the top one which I have all the way to the right. I move the volume control all the way to the top (must have earphones plugged in or it will screech like the Dickens), and only move it a little down if there is too much screech. That's it. Give it a try and let me know, by PM if you like (or not). Good luck.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
Bmb
Wonderful ! Will try it out my next roast.
Thanks a lot !

Bernardo
 
Barrie
Barrie wrote:
Finally, I am about to try out a new pair of hearing aids that have bluetooth reception capability. It will be interesting to see if the associated mini-mike can pick up the cracks from anywhere around the GC.

Well, I have tried putting the mini-mike that is paired with my Resound Verso 9 aids beside the GC and it does an excellent job of streaming the noises. However, that is really no improvement for my recognition of the cracks. So, now I have plugged the mini-mike into the earphone jack in the iPad and that picks up and streams the SoundAMP R filtered output very well. It is still not ideal, because the frequency of the cracks, filtered or not, is beyond the specs of most hearing aids, including these. However it makes me more mobile as I am not tied to the iPod via earphones, and both 1st and 2nd cracks are just audible, 2nd crack more so than 1st, unfortunately. I guess that is what I will go with until I find a better mouse trap. That could be real time filtered audio output to PC but, so far, I have only found very expensive software to do this - out of proportion to the task IMHO.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
gene
Installed soundAMP R yesterday on my iphone5. No luck so far distinguishing cracks.
First experimented. From back room tuned all buttons to right and listened to my wife on phone with someone in front room. Huge, huge difference.

Then turned all dials to left except top dial far right so it it would be in 10mh range.
Roasted 270G Sweet Marias #25 El Competitor which is a deep chocolate blend for my wife. Positioned the i5 both in the exhaust stream and also beside the rotating glass. Nothing. Could hear cracks easily with naked ear.

The beat goes on.....

sure must have done something wrong. hmmmmmm
 
Barrie
I don't know what to say, Gene, but wonder why you are using SoundAMP if you can hear the cracks unaided? I imagine you were using earphones or similar with SoundAMP as it screeches like heck if you turn the volume up without them?
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
gene
Dave

Read your posts and was just curious.

Most of the time I can hear cracks.
Where I have prob is with decafs, all decafs through the years. Traditionally they are very weak cracks and hard to get a handle on progress of roasts sometimes.
Hoping that I can locate some app to complement the SoundAMP R that would depict a graph of cracks in real time for the iphone.

For the present prob just have to work more with mic placement perhaps. Logically, this should amplify cracks. I'm determined to get to the bottom of the mystery.
Curiously no evidence of screeches, course I have earphones.
Thanks for your work in this area.
 
Barrie
Gene,
Hazbean sent me a recording of one of his roasts and I was able to run it filtered to leave the 9-13 khz range as I recall. It did a great job and so I then did my own recording and was able to do the same. The problem is that I cannot find any software that will filter in real time, without paying an exorbitant sum, as they are primarily written for industrial use, musical performance etc. Incidentally, I was doing this with PC applications. If there were software at a reasonable price, that will do real-time filtering in the relevant range, that would be wonderful.

I agree that the SoundAMP app is not ideal but it has got me from no cracks to just-perceptible cracks. I need to try more beans and profiles, though.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
Barrie
Bmb wrote:

Dear Barrie,
I also can't hear a thing from the Gene.
Could hear it loud and clear, when roasting in my oven.
Following your lead I also installed the Sound Amp R in my iPad, it really amplifies very well but I still can't distinguish the cracks from the rolling beans.
How do you position the "keys" of the app ?
I tried several but couldn't decide which one was best ...
The one I liked best is pushing the lower one to the left, at least it stifles the ventilator noise.


This is an update of what I said before. Following a suggestion from another thread (I think) I have found it useful to turn down the volume in SoundAmp to the point where much of the background noise disappears. Takes a bit of fiddling but I think that is a better way to go. I still set the tuning buttons all the way to the left, except for the top one, which is all the way to the right.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
Bmb
This one was intended to Barrie, as we shared a similar problem, however as it may be of someone else's interest, and it's sitting in my outbox mail, I decided to post it here.


Dear Barrie,

Part one (solution)

As yourself I have been also having problems hearing the first crack.

However, in my last roast I did something different and arrived hearing clearly and easily first crack.

What I did was preheating the roaster very well, up to 437° Fahrenheit (225C), and using only 180gr instead of my normal 200gr batch.

Then I set the first five minutes at 437F (225C). Thermometer went down to 340F (171C) and began climbing.

After these first five minutes I ramped up to 473F (245C).

With 9 1/2 minutes I begun hearing clearly and quite well the first crack noises.

I left roasting for about two minutes and then only opened the GC's cover (and also the kitchen window), that was enough, there was no need to decrease the temperature, and ended the roast with 15 minutes.

Then I made my second roast (back to back).

I used the same temperatures but, this time I diminished the first phase to only 4 minutes, before ramping up. Initial thermomether reading was 356F (180C) this time.

First crack happened with 9 minutes 45 seconds, again quite loud and clear, did as before and ended roast, this time with 14 minutes.

So what I believe is happening is the following:

The first phase is not only a dehydration phase.
It's also the moment where the beans take in the necessary energy (heat) to arrive to first crack.

You said that your machine, (just as mine) is a slow heater, consequently we never arrived to first crack with enough energy to produce the cracking noises !

It wasn't that we didn't hear them, what was going on is that the cracking noises were simply not there.

Beginning with a significantly higher temperature I managed to charge the beans with all the necessary energy to produce the cracking noises, and it worked.

Part two (results)

I had roasted these beans before, to City+ and to Full City, and the results were disappointing. Although the roast looked very nice, it had no taste, no aroma, no acidity, no sweetness, no nothing.
They were not even good for blending, I just gave them away.

As I had almost 2kg left over, and without nothing to loose, I decided to try out some ideas and see if I could get out something of these beans, I never expected to hear the crack noises.

Both roasts were good, they looked and - after two resting days - tasted not bad at all.

The first one was better, the main difference is that it has quite more aroma.

The differences between the first and the second roasts were:

Five minutes against four for the first phase and 15 minutes against 14 for total time.

The reason I had to end the second roast earlier was that:

As the first phase was shorter, the beans received 1 minute more of higher 473F, instead of only 437F. Therefore temperature ramped up quicker and beans received more heat than the first batch, and I had to end roast earlier to get the same roast degree.

I believe that our roasters, not as powerful as the others, couldn't deliver enough heat in the same conditions, however, beginning with a higher temperature we may actually arrive to, roughly, the same conditions as the others, and consequently to much better roasting results.

Best regards,

Bernardo
Edited by Bmb on 05/19/2013 6:49 AM
GC, Bezzera Strega, Macap 4M, Graef ES90, Lido, Mokas, Drip, AP & Co.
 
Barrie
Bernardo, there are numerous variables in the outcome of a roast, and we can add the degree and nature of hearing loss to the list?

I have moved on to a Hottop now, with which it is easy to hear the cracks. However, for most of my later roasts with the GC, I was using the following profile.

Preheat
Cool to 140 (for consistency, especially with repeat roasts)
474 until temp reached.
Beans in.
424 to early yellowing
482 to 1C
440 to end (would give me about 4 min to 2C).

Even with that profile, I could not hear the cracks consistently.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
blackraptor
Hi, is it possible to hear the second crack and not the first? I'm looking for profiles, because i could not hear the FC. I hear some cracks 3-4 and the end og my roasts and after some seconds oil and now thinking that could be the second crack.

I would like also to ask somethink about the temp. You are saying preheat and then temp at 482 and after first crack decrease the temp to 460. If the first crack is at 460-464 the temp will nevet climb at 482. Whats the point to set at 482 and not at 470?
 
Bmb
My last experiences showed that:
1. If you roast outside, you can take off the chaff collector and you'll hear cracks quite easily. Taking off the top part of it also helps, and you'll still will be able to roast indoors.
2. Beginning of FC is easier to identify by smell than by ear. Just keep sniffing and you'll perceive when the grassy, bread baking smell turns to a more pungent and roast smell, that's when it begins and should be left at that temperature at least one minute, in order not to stall the crack.
Cheers.
GC, Bezzera Strega, Macap 4M, Graef ES90, Lido, Mokas, Drip, AP & Co.
 
blackraptor
I'm using brazilian beans from ocoffee, the microlot onix. I noticed that at highh temp, over 240 c degrees i could not hear the first crack, but at 235 i can hear it very well. Both profiles 5 min at 160 for preheat. My gene hits max temp, 250 degrees at 6,5 min. What do you think is it possible to hear fc at lower temp? I also noticed that its easier for me to hear the sc than the fc on both profiles.
 
blackraptor
I m not using max temp, because i have too many cracks and most beans are burst. Aftwr 200gr i get 162gr.
 
Dan
The problem is that I cannot find any software that will filter in real time.


Maybe you don't need software. Why not go old school and use an analog filter? They work in real time. The cheapest one I know of are speaker crossovers. They separate the frequencies for three-way speakers (tweeter, midrange, woofer). Just wire your speaker/headphones to the tweeter output (about 2K-30K Hz)

Or, make your own. I think the wiring is pretty simple. With a little research you could probably build one to filter the bandwidth you want by changing a few resistors and capacitors. Start here:

http://www.diyaud...Crossover/
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
 
http://www.intactamerica.org
Barrie
I am now using a Hottop with which the cracks are clearly audible. Yesterday, I roasted some SM Monkey Blend for the first time with the HT. It was a real surprise to hear how loud the cracks were, compared to umpteen others I have been roasting. If any GC-user who is deaf has some Monkey Blend around, give them a whirl and listen carefully. ThumbsUp
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
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