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11/04/2019 1:58 AM
+1 snwcmpr

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Funopt, please post in the gas and electric heat sources forum

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10/22/2019 5:31 AM
Thanks to you all....... I was not sleeping ... I stayed awake worried about it all. :)

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Amplified cracks etc.
Barrie
:best post


I am hard of hearing, and have heard others comment on the difficulty of hearing first and second crack that I, too, am experiencing with the GC. This is the only negative feature of a roaster that is in all other ways a delight, when compared with my previous Fresh Roast. The suggestions I have heard have been to listen close to the chaff-collector exhaust or to use a stethoscope. I have to take my hearing aids out to use a stethoscope, and so that is an option that just does not work for me. I have an exhaust pipe attached to the chaff-collector outlet and so that makes that option doubtful. Has anyone heard of using a little microphone and speaker(s), or does anyone have an idea as to how to rig the microphone?
Edited by zombie girl on 05/25/2012 11:40 AM
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
ciel-007
The best solution I found was the use of a stethoscope. Given the presence of hearing aids, you might consider trying to modify the tips of the scope so that they fit over the entire ear. For example, it might be possible to attach a cup-like device to each tip on the scope. Each cup would have to be large enough to cover the entire ear (like some of the older headphones) when placed into the listening position.

I did not particularly enjoy roasting with a stethoscope in my ears. For a while, I was thinking of cementing a small microphone to the body of the chaff collector, and then magnifying the signal with a small amplifier and speakers. However, given the significant amount of mechnical noises generated by the CG, the amplifier would also need a filtering circuit to screen out the mechanical noises that tend to overpower the subtle pops and crackles created by the roasting process itself.
Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK�NIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
 
Lawnmowerman
Consider a set of noise cancelling headphones. You could get a more inexpensive model like the sony pictured in all of chads posts. Or you could could pay more for bose or sennheiser. And they are available in over the ear.
Bad coffee prevails when good coffee roasters stand by and do nothing.
 
Lawnmowerman
These dont need to be plugged into help lower amcient noise. I had a koss set but had to return it because it amplified the wind in my ears and my plodding footsteps through my body. But not with the sony. I also discovered that even with the power off the foam surrounds tended to muffle the offending noise. At least for me.
Bad coffee prevails when good coffee roasters stand by and do nothing.
 
Dan
LMM is right. Sound absorbing ear muffs remove high pitched sounds, but allow mid-range through so you can hear a person speaking. An ordinary set of these over your hearing aids might do the trick. And, they are inexpensive compared to noise canceling ones. Besides, every shop should have some.
 
http://www.intactamerica.org
Barrie
I thought I had already posted a reply to thank you all for your help but apparently not. Oh, well - you are duly thanked, nevertheless. :) This is a difficult problem that I would like to solve and so any ideas are welcome. You have given me food for thought and it will be interesting to see if any other directions emerge.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
jkoll42
I could swear that someone had a patent and was working on an audible crack detector but I can't seem to find it.... however I did find this thread where they are looking at trying to use audio processing to determine cracks and translate them to a LED output. It might be interesting to see how it progresses.

http://coffeesnob...37561181/6

Is there a way to get a TC into the bean mass? 1C almost always hits within a few degrees of the same temp each time and 2C is just slightly less reliable. If you did a couple roasts to dial in the temp that the cracks were hitting at, you could either just roast from temp or know when you had to stick the ear to the heat and listen.
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3
 
jkoll42
Or, it would be a great excuse to get one of those new bluetooth hearingaids - I'm sure there's no limit to what you could do with that, arduino and a bluetooth shield :)
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3
 
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slr001
Barrie, as was mentioned in my thread by John I think... There is an app for that.

I dont have hearing aids (yet) but only have one working (partially) ear.

There are iphone apps that are basic amplifiers. Take sound in via the mic, and you listen via a headset. Might still be a pain with your hearing aids.

I have one I downloaded a long time ago for a different reason called uListen Sound Amplifier. I am going to give it a try next time to see if it helps. There are plenty of other in the AppStore if you search for "amplifier".

I'll let you know if it helps me.
 
Barrie
slr001 wrote:

Barrie, as was mentioned in my thread by John I think... There is an app for that.

I dont have hearing aids (yet) but only have one working (partially) ear.

There are iphone apps that are basic amplifiers. Take sound in via the mic, and you listen via a headset. Might still be a pain with your hearing aids.

I have one I downloaded a long time ago for a different reason called uListen Sound Amplifier. I am going to give it a try next time to see if it helps. There are plenty of other in the AppStore if you search for "amplifier".

I'll let you know if it helps me.

That all sounds very interesting. The problem is that I do not have an iPhone. You are making me wish I had one. :)
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
Barrie
jkoll42 wrote:

I could swear that someone had a patent and was working on an audible crack detector but I can't seem to find it.... however I did find this thread where they are looking at trying to use audio processing to determine cracks and translate them to a LED output. It might be interesting to see how it progresses.

http://coffeesnob...37561181/6

Is there a way to get a TC into the bean mass? 1C almost always hits within a few degrees of the same temp each time and 2C is just slightly less reliable. If you did a couple roasts to dial in the temp that the cracks were hitting at, you could either just roast from temp or know when you had to stick the ear to the heat and listen.

One of the problems with which many of us wrestle is that, to date, nobody has found a way to get a thermocouple into the bean mass with this roaster. On the other hand, one can make infinite adjustments to the temperature/time profile and, as you say, there is a window of time in which the cracks occur with some predictability, in any one profile. That is a help.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
Brainiac
jkoll42 wrote:

I could swear that someone had a patent and was working on an audible crack detector but I can't seem to find it.



US Patent 4,602,147

"This invention is directed to a cooking control method and apparatus for food products which emit sounds through the explosive release of steam and gases generated by the cooking process. The system includes automatic control circuitry which is enabled by the detection of the audio energy created by the cooking food products and which provides a control signal upon the cessation of the noises generated by the cooking process. This control signal may be used to energize an indicator but in preferred embodiments, the control signal is used to terminate application of cooking heat.

By way of example, this specification is directed to a device for roasting coffee, one of the food products for which the noise responsive timing means is designed."


Brian
 
Brainiac
... also Patent 6,260,479
 
Barrie
Brainiac wrote:

jkoll42 wrote:

I could swear that someone had a patent and was working on an audible crack detector but I can't seem to find it.



US Patent 4,602,147

"This invention is directed to a cooking control method and apparatus for food products which emit sounds through the explosive release of steam and gases generated by the cooking process. The system includes automatic control circuitry which is enabled by the detection of the audio energy created by the cooking food products and which provides a control signal upon the cessation of the noises generated by the cooking process. This control signal may be used to energize an indicator but in preferred embodiments, the control signal is used to terminate application of cooking heat.

By way of example, this specification is directed to a device for roasting coffee, one of the food products for which the noise responsive timing means is designed."


Brian

Holy smoke (pardon the unintended pun)! Where does this lead us?
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
slr001
slr001 wrote:

Barrie, as was mentioned in my thread by John I think... There is an app for that.

I dont have hearing aids (yet) but only have one working (partially) ear.

There are iphone apps that are basic amplifiers. Take sound in via the mic, and you listen via a headset. Might still be a pain with your hearing aids.

I have one I downloaded a long time ago for a different reason called uListen Sound Amplifier. I am going to give it a try next time to see if it helps. There are plenty of other in the AppStore if you search for "amplifier".

I'll let you know if it helps me.


Ok, so just finished roasting a batch this morning and heard 1C for the first time using the App mentioned above. Important to use headphones that dont have a built in mic also I think. It worked very well by putting the iPhone mic right in the airflow coming out of the exhaust.

WARNING... may not be good for your iPhone to be that close to this heat source.

But I definitely and clearly heard 1C start, and probably more importantly, could hear when it was done.
 
Barrie
slr001 wrote:

slr001 wrote:

Barrie, as was mentioned in my thread by John I think... There is an app for that.

I dont have hearing aids (yet) but only have one working (partially) ear.

There are iphone apps that are basic amplifiers. Take sound in via the mic, and you listen via a headset. Might still be a pain with your hearing aids.

I have one I downloaded a long time ago for a different reason called uListen Sound Amplifier. I am going to give it a try next time to see if it helps. There are plenty of other in the AppStore if you search for "amplifier".

I'll let you know if it helps me.


Ok, so just finished roasting a batch this morning and heard 1C for the first time using the App mentioned above. Important to use headphones that dont have a built in mic also I think. It worked very well by putting the iPhone mic right in the airflow coming out of the exhaust.

WARNING... may not be good for your iPhone to be that close to this heat source.

But I definitely and clearly heard 1C start, and probably more importantly, could hear when it was done.

I am one of those oldsters who only carries the simplest cell phone possible (Jitterbug), for emergency purposes. I do have an iPod and iPad, and the latter has a mike, but I have not explored that.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
slr001
Barrie wrote:

slr001 wrote:

slr001 wrote:

Barrie, as was mentioned in my thread by John I think... There is an app for that.

I dont have hearing aids (yet) but only have one working (partially) ear.

There are iphone apps that are basic amplifiers. Take sound in via the mic, and you listen via a headset. Might still be a pain with your hearing aids.

I have one I downloaded a long time ago for a different reason called uListen Sound Amplifier. I am going to give it a try next time to see if it helps. There are plenty of other in the AppStore if you search for "amplifier".

I'll let you know if it helps me.


Ok, so just finished roasting a batch this morning and heard 1C for the first time using the App mentioned above. Important to use headphones that dont have a built in mic also I think. It worked very well by putting the iPhone mic right in the airflow coming out of the exhaust.

WARNING... may not be good for your iPhone to be that close to this heat source.

But I definitely and clearly heard 1C start, and probably more importantly, could hear when it was done.

I am one of those oldsters who only carries the simplest cell phone possible (Jitterbug), for emergency purposes. I do have an iPod and iPad, and the latter has a mike, but I have not explored that.


Might work with the iPad... Mine is 1st Gen, not sure if it has a mic.

Should give it a try with the iPad. It was cool to actually hear 1C. Gave me a lot more control knowing when 1C started and ended.
 
Barrie
I went to the Apple store this afternoon and they talked wireless via bluetooth. The starting cost for the speaker alone was $199! I think I would try to do this more simply, and will report back after my next roast - won't be for a few days.
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
Barrie
slr001 wrote:

[quote]slr001 wrote:

Ok, so just finished roasting a batch this morning and heard 1C for the first time using the App mentioned above. Important to use headphones that dont have a built in mic also I think. It worked very well by putting the iPhone mic right in the airflow coming out of the exhaust.

WARNING... may not be good for your iPhone to be that close to this heat source.

But I definitely and clearly heard 1C start, and probably more importantly, could hear when it was done.


I have discovered that uListen Sound Amplifier is available for the iPad and so I am thinking of downloading it. As someone said, there are all sorts of amplifier apps out there but they vary in their intended purpose. Some, for instance, are intended to amplify sounds produced by the iPod (music etc); some are intended to produce sounds themselves, or to produce the related frequency wave forms (could be useful).
What I would really like to find is an app that will pick up sounds and send them out, amplified, to speakers or headphones in real time, while I am using another app. It would also be terrific if there were band-width filtering. :-).
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
hazbean
I was thinking about this and tried to find a simple way of doing some processing with "off the shelf" tools that give a reasonable indication of when first crack starts.

Good to see that the amplifier app is useful for bringing out the auditory clues. However I was wondering about ways to generate some sort of visual indication.

As it happens, I have some recordings of GC roasts from a couple of years ago when I was using some OCR software to make roast logs from the GC readout. These recordings also include sound, recorded about a metre above the readout. This is not ideal, but useful for fiddling around.

I tried using the visualizations that come with VLC (Mac and PC) to see if a simple spectral analysis would show some obvious changes when 1C arrived. It didn't. This is (as pointed out earlier) from the noise of the beans moving around, and in particular from the gate crashing down regularly, creating a broad spectrum pattern with big jumps in amplitude due to the gate. The pops of 1C didn't make enough of a difference to be visible.

Then I remembered that my version of VLC was very old, so I downloaded the latest. This has a few simple filters )called "audio effects") that can be applied to the display, in particular a graphic equalizer.

After a lot of playing with it I found that setting the sliders to max boost at 12KHz and zero everywhere else brought out the sound of 1C nicely, both audibly, and in particular as an obvious"pattern" at the right hand end of the display (different from that made by the gate, which is still there of course)..

I've put one of the recordings in my public Dropbox folder, so anyone who cares to can try it. To my ears, the first pop of 1C is at 11:47 on the recording; it is well underway at 12:25. The video is very boring, just of the display. The link (15MB file, best to download it rather than stream) is:

http://dl.dropbox...949/GC.mpg


Of course this doen't solve the problem, but is food for thought. The results would be better with an optimized mic placement (eg as suggested near the exhaust).

Also I'm analyzing a recording. There is not much point in having to make a recording to figure out where the cracks are :( VLC doesn't do live input. So I went looking for some real time audio streaming s/w to do this simple filtering, but can't seem to find any. There is something called RTEQ on PC, but I have a Mac so haven't run it. I'll keep looking when I have the time, wouldn't have thought the processing latency involved for this would be prohibitive. Something that would work on iphone / iPad with a cheap USB mic connected via the camera adaptor would be nice ....
 
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