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allenb
OfflineAdmin
· 04/02/2020 4:50 AM
Morning Ed, I haven't done any green coffee hoarding yet but am hoping the supplies don't end up like the toilet paper isles!

snwcmpr
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· 03/31/2020 2:53 PM
Hey Ed. Thanks. roar

homeroaster
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· 03/31/2020 11:21 AM
Hey quarantined home roasters! I hope you have great coffee! If they have a run on coffee, I hope you're set with your great home roast! Find me on Facebook! Ed Needham

snwcmpr
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· 03/25/2020 11:49 AM
New Rochelle in the news. I think of you every time I hear it. ... Please stay safe.

allenb
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· 03/21/2020 7:36 AM
Good morning homeroasters morning Everyone is hopefully staying healthy through this. Hang in there and stay safe!

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Wonder if I'm Baking
jkoll42
Fauzi - since you are having a problem with all variety of beans and can't choke the machine I am thinking that the issue is more likely with the grinder. I only ever had one batch of beans that I messed up so badly I couldn't pull a shot with and they were old stock.

ou may have done this already but if not be sure to zero the burrs in case they have come out of adjustment

http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/...t3783.html

Inspect the burrs for wear. Any chance you know someone else with an espresso grinder you could borrow?

I am sure you can fine tune your roasting skills but after your last response I am thinking it is more likely the grinder.

Jon
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3
 
fauzi
Hey Jon,

Ugh! Back to square one... So confused!

Are the characteristics of different beans so varied that some (like the store bought ones, no idea of origin) will extract fine, and the nicaraguan ones won't?

Is quick blonding even a symptom of a bad roast?

-Fauzi
 
jkoll42
Were the store bought beans whole beans that you ground in the grinder or were they preground?

I've never noticed a large variation on extraction based on origin. The variation is usually based on roast level. Lighter roasts will need a finer grind, darker roasts a coarser grind. Lower humidity finer grind, higher humidity coarser grind. I'm only talking a click or two of adjustment total though - what you are experiencing is total disaster!!!

I think quick blonding can be a problem with bad roast, but like I said, I have only experienced it once in about 50 espresso roasts.

Do you have any cafe's around where you could try a shot, bring some of the beans that they are using home and try to pull a shot with them? That would tell you if it is the grinder or the roast.

On a side note, have you lived in Pakistan your whole life? If so, your English is very good.
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3
 
fauzi

Quote

jkoll42 wrote:

Were the store bought beans whole beans that you ground in the grinder or were they preground?

I've never noticed a large variation on extraction based on origin. The variation is usually based on roast level. Lighter roasts will need a finer grind, darker roasts a coarser grind. Lower humidity finer grind, higher humidity coarser grind. I'm only talking a click or two of adjustment total though - what you are experiencing is total disaster!!!

I think quick blonding can be a problem with bad roast, but like I said, I have only experienced it once in about 50 espresso roasts.

Do you have any cafe's around where you could try a shot, bring some of the beans that they are using home and try to pull a shot with them? That would tell you if it is the grinder or the roast.

On a side note, have you lived in Pakistan your whole life? If so, your English is very good.


Jon,

Born and raised in Pakistan... and thanks... Went to school in LA at USC, though... but I'd rather not talk about it 'cause I miss it like hell!!! :(

Did you see the picture of the beans I posted with the temperature chart? Do the beans look ok? Because, how's this for a theory? Due to some roasting issue, I'm not roasting nearly dark enough for espresso... and thus the early blonding?

The store bought were whole beans... And no good coffee place around. There is a roaster in Islamabad, the capital (I live in Karachi), and she roasted some Monsoon malabar for me... They were ok... a little light on the extraction but could be attributed to tamping / dosing technique.

Gonna try the lower drying times and see... somehow that makes a bit of sense to me.

And then I'll drown my sorrows in blonde coffee when I run out of beans... :(

Fauzi
 
jkoll42
The beans looked like they might be a little light. Are you going into second crack? If not I would try to go maybe 30 seconds into second crack.
On your graph - are those bean temperatures or air temperatures?

Since you bought whole beans and at least got an ok shot, I guess the grinder is ok and we are back to roasting problems. Where are you getting your green beans from? Any chance they are old stock?
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3
 
fauzi
Jon,

Tried a lesser drying time tonight and still got the fc at a little past 12 min. And got a great 2c. Roasted about 45 sec into it before a quick cool down. Weight loss was about 19pct as opposed to 17 on the last roast.

All temps are air temps.

Will do a trial shot 12 hours from now. And will post up my temperature readings tomorrow. It's late here...

One thing I did notice. The beans seem a bit more "swollen" on the seam side than my previous roast. Don't know if that's a good thing but someone above asked about that.

Will sleep-pray for a good shot. Wish me luck! :)

Fauzi
 
jkoll42
Good luck! Yes, swollen seam sides indicate a deeper roast.

I'm not sure if my general roast profile would also apply to your GC, but I shoot for 4 min to 300F, 4 more to 400F (first crack), and another 4-5 until roast is done (5 minutes is usually for second crack espresso beans). The profile will vary slightly, but thats a guideline of what has been sucessful for me.
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3
 
ginny
Fauzi:

Hi, I would try a shot right out the door, give the beans time to cool all the way, grind a bit a do the shot.

ginny

really good way to gauge the roast all the way through.
Edited by ginny on 05/11/2012 2:58 PM
 
troposcuba
more swollen beans on the side with the seam is good. that is tellin you you have a darker roast (color is not always a good indication). Good luck.
Sean
 
fauzi

Quote

ginny wrote:

Fauzi:

Hi, I would try a shot right out the door, give the beans time to cool all the way, grind a bit a do the shot.

ginny

really good way to gauge the roast all the way through.


Ginny, thanks for that. Will try it next roast.

Ummm, I'm assuming you meant shot. Grin

Fauzi
 
ginny
yes I meant shot, I also fixed it! thanks for pointing that out.

-gGrin
 
slr001
Fauzi,

I am following this with interest. I bought a used GC and when I picked it up he roasted a batch for me that came out quite well.

My first batch came out well also.

But my last two or three sound like yours. Trying to get them to 2C , I can go 18+ min and they are still light... Tried getting there faster with higher temps, and they are darker, but still seem small and undersized. Also, they are much "harder" I use a hand grinder, and they are very much harder to grind. One batch would have broken my grinder if I would have forced it anymore.

I am beginning to think from reading this thread that I am drying too long at the begging. Hope the shorter dry times helped your last batch out.

My GC gets to max temp (482) at 6:00

I have an espresso blend that I am having the most problems with. It is 50% Brazillian Peaberry, 25% Sumatra, 25% Ethiopian. Was thinking it was just the Peaberry that was giving me a hard time as those beans are small to begin with.
 
fauzi
All,

No love yet! Gotta say, this time I thought I nailed it...

Sir001:
Gotta tell ya, two things helped me get to 2c... Less drying time, and putting the GC on a voltage stabilizer. World of a difference.

Still getting 9 second blondes though...

I'm still suspecting my roast though, and here's my reasoning:

I still can't get my head around the fact that teh store bought coffee still extracts fine. Prior to the stabilizer and lesser drying time, I was not able to get to 2c, but was able to do so with ease with both above steps.

However, iirc, I went a good minute into 2c and I would imagine the roast to be a lot darker than it has actually turned out. Yes, the sides were swollen more than before, but not really saying much.

Therefore, I'm still thinking I'm not roasting enough... Tonight I'm going to go for less drying time (say 1.5 min total) and stop when I start to see oil.

As a side note, I contacted coffeesnobs where I bought the Tanzanian (not Nicaraguan, as I mentioned earlier), to ask if perhaps this was not a good espresso coffee, and he says that this is HUGE favorite and makes a killer espresso.

Is there someone here (preferably with a Rocky, but not necessarily) that I can send my roast to? Would be good to have another set of eyes looking at it.

More to come later...

Fauzi
 
jkoll42
Don't worry so much about the color of the roast. 1 minunte into 2C should be fine for espresso.

I agree that it is likely something with the roast - if you can get normal extractions from store bought then that pretty much rules out the equipment.

I would be happy to check out a roast and try to pull some shots with my setup, but hopefully someone a little closer to you will offer so you don't get destroyed on postage!
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3
 
fauzi
Ok, I'm back.

Last night's profile was based on Jon's earlier advice as well as Andrew's pm to me. Basically, due to the fact that the GC can not apply heat quickly enough after the drying phase to ramp up into 1c quickly enough, we don't give it a separate drying time... So the idea is to have a 4-4-4 split, whereby you dry for four minutes, take it into FC by 8 min, and SC at around 12. In order to avoid the above problem, after a good preheating, I start the roast on full power, until the FC, and I can see the bean going through the drying phase... looked fully yellow and entering into cinnamon by about 5:05.

Anyways, seems like a better roast, because as opposed to 18:something, I closed off last night's at just past 13...And the SC was going wild.

Will post pics...

Noticed craters in the bean though. IIRC, that is a sign of temp being too high at SC, right? If that is the case, then I can certainly adjust how soon after FC I move the temp down... and to how much. Last night I turned it down to 240 (from a max 250) 20 seconds into FC.

Gonna wait to extract this time.

Jon, sent you out a pm... My company does a lot of DHL'ing stuff all over the world, so I think I'll survive the postage hit! :)

More later,

Fauzi
 
jkoll42
Good to hear the roast times are shortening up. The craters could be a couple things. It can be a sign that heat was too high from 1c to 2c. It can also be from going deep into 2c - sometimes you will get some minor flaking as the cell structure cracks. From what I've seen I believe larger round craters are usually from high heat, where smaller occasional flakes or chips can happen deeper in 2C.

Jon
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3
 
hazbean
Good to see things are progressing, will be interested to see pics / results.

Times look good, your Gene is obviously working well!

The craters / divots IME also are related to behaviour around 2C. Practice (and keeping logs) will build up intuition of when and how much to drop temp for the desired result.

Have fun! Andrew
 
fauzi
Ok, folks!

I have to say that this is the best I've ever roasted... The beans look good and healthy (well, aside from the divots), and color is nicer. A nice sheen of oil developing.

Having said that, the still not getting the result that I should be getting... 10-12 second blonding on the latest roast. :(

I have sent out beans from the lastest roast to Jon, and that will determine a) the quality of the roast and hence b) whether or not its the grinder that's at fault.

But now I am suspecting that prior to my first post, I had a combination of issues... baking and bad grinding. To clarify this further, I have a) send Jon some beans and b) will take some to grind on a LaSpaziale Top Grinder (basically, a rebadged Macap M4), and see what the result it. Everyone says that, compared to a Rocky, this one is far better... But I figure, if I can't get the Rocky fixed, then I move it to pourover duties and splurge for something like a Mazzer Mini.

Let's see though what Jon comes up with.

Meantime, just so I can start looking, any ideas where I can find 220-240v mazzers online?

Jon, thanks for taking the time out... Have dispatched the beans and you should be getting them in the next few days... if customs doesn't destroy everything from Pakistan that is! :)

Fauzi
 
fauzi
I'm back... Had a slightly better extraction... saw the beginnings of mouse tails, and then the coffee "splooshed" on out.

What I did different: Held and pressed down on the rocky's bean hopper, and put a tamper on top of the beans to weigh them down. Ugh! And I spent 600 bucks on this thing! Yes, these things are expensive here.

Jon's extractions will confirm / deny what my suspicions are, so I will wait until then to make any rash decisions. Though I have located a few Mazzer SJ Electronics on ebay...Grin

-Fauzi
 
hazbean
"Held and pressed down on the rocky's bean hopper, and put a tamper on top of the beans to weigh them down. Ugh! …"

Not so "ugh" really -- I've been doing that with my Mini E for years :)

No hopper, just beans down the throat and something on top to hold them in. Makes dosing by weight a lot easier ...
 
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