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snwcmpr
02/23/2019 9:17 AM
Ethiopian natural Gesha today .. tasting it tomorrow.

snwcmpr
02/13/2019 4:49 AM
Thanks again Ginny.

snwcmpr
02/12/2019 3:29 AM
Good morning all. Just finished a few days with Yemen Red Harraz. We liked it.

Husamka
02/11/2019 10:05 AM
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Husamka
02/11/2019 10:01 AM
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Fair Trade Organic (FTO)
BoldJava
MPrince is getting all worked up on twitter.com re: an FTO article that he sees as "sour words" about Cup of Excellence. He encourages others to write the author.

http://www.ft.com...07658.html

I have my own ambivalence about FTO (not the intent, but the execution) but I didn't find the article "sour" on COE at all. Felt it framed the discussion very well. COE is about marketing, for heaven's sake.

B|Java
Edited by BoldJava on 03/03/2009 12:00 AM
http://sidewalkmy...
Dave Borton
Milwaukee, WI
 
http://sidewalkmystic.com
John Despres
"Simon Wakefield is sceptical of the elaborate tasting notes which accompany the Cup of Excellence auctions: “It is clever marketing. But after the beans have been roasted, ground, kept on somebody’s kitchen shelf, made into coffee, and then milk and sugar have been added can you really tell me that you can taste a difference?” "

Perhaps that's the offending remark. I'm with you, Dave.

He's correct. However, if the coffee starts out as drek it'll be a lower grade of drek once the above mentioned time passes. It's all an exponential drop from the quality at which the coffee starts.
Edited by John Despres on 03/03/2009 12:12 AM
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
www.sceneitallproductions.com
BoldJava
I am sure that remark set him off. I understood the remark in context of a rather well written, FTO favored article.

Jim and I have had long discussions about this elsewhere, both on and off the boards. I respect people on both sides of the discussion.

For me, it is about quality. I buy about 95% of our food that is organic and local; meat and poultry is all range fed and never caged. I really believe in supporting the local farmer, at a premium price. However, if it is poor quality, I will pass it up.

With my recent distribution, I intentionally went after FTOs and Rain Forest Alliance beans. I became aware during the process that those issues matter to me. However, the organic (though co-op, not FTO) and RFA coffee was the best cup (as judged by 5) so I went with it.

Be interested to "get under the process" and see if the co-op farmers did as well per pound as did the FTO farmers.

B|Java
Edited by BoldJava on 03/03/2009 12:49 AM
http://sidewalkmy...
Dave Borton
Milwaukee, WI
 
http://sidewalkmystic.com
seedlings
It is unfortunate that FTO and sister organizations are so highly effective at bureaucracy. I wonder how much per pound the organization makes off the farmers represented?

Danny O'Neill from www.theroasterie.com was on the Iowa Public radio program with Brett Mason the other day. When Danny was asked, he stated that FTO only says that the "cooperative gets $1.28/lb minimum. Our average that we pay as a company is $1.75/lb. We don't pay $1.28/lb for anything." He added that if The Roasterie paid Fair Trade prices, they would make $500,000 more annually as a company.

The farmers would be better served with a HQO Higher Quality Organization - that would invite much higher prices! I would hazard a guess that the specialty coffee conesseur is not at risk for shorting a coffee farmer, the Bad Coffee Giants are.

CHAD
Edited by seedlings on 03/03/2009 2:18 AM
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
John Despres
I'm a big fan of Farm Gate Coffee as purchased by Sweet Maria's. It is my fervent hope all Fair Trade raised monies will someday reach the farmers and field workers.

Just saying.
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
www.sceneitallproductions.com
cfsheridan
Whole discussion reminds me of a quote.

The Devil is in the details, but so is salvation

--Hyman Rickover, father of the Nuclear Navy

I am skeptical of certifying organizations. Premise and desire may be good, but the execution and the attendant layers of (necessary and unnecessary) bureaucracy can sap the life out of the movement.

I'd love to see more direct trade coffees wilth full transparancy on the financial side. I've been trying to connect with folks that are doing that from the importers--it's tough when you're only buying a few bags at a time. Still, nothing to be lost by asking. When I talk to some of the major direct trade roasters, I like to remind them that home roasters don't necessarily take away from their business--we'd of the type that we'll roast on own own regardless of the cost/quality of our local (or famous regional) roaster. I also still buy roasted from some folks--mainly Counter Culture and Terroir--on occasion.
 
Clifford
I am also a big fan of the farm gate program. In fact, I was on the internet web site for a farm that processes thier own crop. They showed a picture of the family dog and related that the FTO would be horrified that their only employee was paid with dogie treats instead of a fair wage stipulated by them, and so their arm is not eligible . Of course they sell their coffee for 16.00 per pound plus FED EX costs instead of the $1.79 the FTO recommends. Just a little attempt at humor.
May the Force be with your cup
 
BoldJava
FTO Survey in right column: 17 votes, 4.82 average. This is helpful, when I source samples for future bags.

B|Java
http://sidewalkmy...
Dave Borton
Milwaukee, WI
 
http://sidewalkmystic.com
Clifford
BJ When you source for future bags, please give emphasis on coffee that tastes great
May the Force be with your cup
 
dBndbit
The "official" Fair Trade certification administered by Transfair America (and the FLO) costs exactly 10 cents per pound. I don't know what the organic, Rain Forest, bird friendly or other certs cost. The FT price is intended to be a floor on the market to protect the growers and pickers.

However, none of those certifications have anything to do with coffee quality, defects, or flavor. We infer "quality" based on how we perceive the importance of the issue: organic growing techniques, trees, birds, or fair pay. It's a mistake to confuse the specialty coffee market with fair trade.

The real benefit of fair trade minimum pricing would be to have it apply to the entire coffee industry, not just a top small percent who don't need it. The fact that someone pays more than FT minimums for specialty-flavor beans does not mean the problem is solved. In fact, comparing the two prices makes no sense.

In some ways the coffee industry is like the auto industry, but as it was 70 years ago (before unions). So we might ask why worry about the price of a Ford Focus when we pay so much more for an Escalade? And heck, look at all the money you can get for a Rolls Royce! Why don't the factory people just all start making Rolls Royces? Sounds foolish, but it's a reasonable comparison. Fair trade is just supposed to be an economic safety net for people at the bottom of an industry we all enjoy.

Solutions that come from the small top end of an industry are certainly good things, but they're little help for the industry as a whole. All coffee growers can not grow specialty-flavor coffee. Well, unless maybe they all live in a place like Lake Woebegone, MN, where "all the children (and coffee beans) are above average." Please don't evaluate the issue of fair trade based only on the logic of specialty coffee. The specialty coffee industry is just the market that is giving fair trade a healthy start, not it's justifications.
Jim
11 years old... forever!
ReeferDoor.com
>home-built roasters and fair trade
 
http://www.ReeferDoor.com
BoldJava
Good article in today's email on Timor Fair Trade beans/practices from Dean Cycon (Dean's Beans). He is digging deeper into Timor, trying to make a difference.

Article discusses the tension of FTO, and his efforts to see for himself and challenge the FTO orgn of Timor to set up a single origin rather than a co-op bean. Read on here...

http://www.deansb...blogid=930

Some of Dean's Beans are good and some are quite average but no one has more passion about his work than does he.

B|Java
Edited by BoldJava on 03/25/2009 11:35 AM
http://sidewalkmy...
Dave Borton
Milwaukee, WI
 
http://sidewalkmystic.com
jspain
Well I've read this thred with interest. Most of you know that I roast the majority of my greens for a group of churches here in east central Ohio. The churches are drawn to the effort (true or not) to help the coffee farmers and workers of third world countries. I do understand that in reality I don't know if it makes a difference or not but when I read the post from B/J about how the coop in Timor is spreading the profits of the sales, it makes me want to help more! I first got my idea for roasting for mission from a Mennonite pastor from Mechanicsburg, Ohio who has direct contact and relationships with the farms. He and his churches visit the farms and share "The Good News." They are like Sweet Maria's as it relates to farm direct but with a message. I'd love to see our club and others develop relationships where we could cut out the middle man and get great quality at a reasonable price and make sure the farmers and workers benefit! Jim
"How we treat our children determines who we are!"
 
ginny
>>>MPrince is getting all worked up on twitter<<<

why am I not surprised. this guy has a serious issue with anyone
who does not agree with his everything coffee world.

ginny


excuse me but the coffee world does not revolve around mr prince
 
BoldJava
jspain wrote:
...I'd love to see our club and others develop relationships where we could cut out the middle man and get great quality at a reasonable price and make sure the farmers and workers benefit! Jim


Had an interesting discussion with a Kona farmer about the FTO issue yesterday. She has a different take on the coffee world, being a grower in the developed country vs those growing in the 'developing' countries.

Her labor costs, as a percentage of sales, are much higher that say the owner of a finca in Guatemala. Her point? If you are interest in economic justice for the ag worker and small farmer, support the Hawaiian farmer. (She has less than 2 hectares, about 5 acres). Her laborers make an avg of $12/hr and live relatively better than ag workers in Guatemala. (Been there, seen the conditions).

She wasn't strident or argumentative about this. What she was doing is framing it from a different vantage point. Interesting. My response was that for me, it is not an "either or" but a "both/and."

She knows me from repeat purchases, emails, and now phone-conversation. It is a both- and. I purchase about 10 lbs of Kona a year (ordered 5 more last night), have promoted her Kona, and now hope to move some Ka'u cooperative coffee if it cups well on Saturday.

Coffee from the developing world isn't "going away," so given that, how can we support economic justice for quality coffees? That is the question with which I wrestle. Fairness ain't easy.

B|Java
Edited by BoldJava on 03/26/2009 12:09 AM
http://sidewalkmy...
Dave Borton
Milwaukee, WI
 
http://sidewalkmystic.com
jspain
Well said Dave. I agree that developed countries have issues too, but boy $12 an hour in developed countries seems to put workers in a better place than $6 a month in developing countries....especially when you look at the infrastructure issues and living conditions. After several travels to third world countries my heart hurts with the depravity of those just trying to survive versus those trying to make a living..? You are correct and it is an and, not an or! All I can say we have been blesses, how can we best share our blessings?? Jim
"How we treat our children determines who we are!"
 
BoldJava
Pura Vida Coffee, Seattle roaster, was featured on PBS Lehrer Report this evening. They are 100% FTO, Bird Friendly, organic coffees.

http://www.pbs.or...ocial_ent/

Ironically, I recv'd a gift lb of their Colombian today for a post to their blog. Post number 9.

http://dwarfurl.c...

Colombian...yes, great convergence of hankerings, Colombians, news, and blogs.

B|Java
Edited by BoldJava on 03/26/2009 1:20 PM
http://sidewalkmy...
Dave Borton
Milwaukee, WI
 
http://sidewalkmystic.com
dBndbit
Great account by Dean C. on his effort and the fair trade co-op in Timor. There are several things to get encouraged about there. Thanks for the link, Dave!
Jim
11 years old... forever!
ReeferDoor.com
>home-built roasters and fair trade
 
http://www.ReeferDoor.com
BoldJava
That's the co-op that put together the Timor that I just moved.

http://coopcoffee...east-timor


B|Java
Edited by BoldJava on 03/26/2009 2:19 PM
http://sidewalkmy...
Dave Borton
Milwaukee, WI
 
http://sidewalkmystic.com
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