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Koffee Kosmo
OfflineAdmin
· 08/28/2020 7:15 PM
I have updated my signature and added links to the KKTO roaster build

snwcmpr
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· 08/16/2020 8:12 AM
I will say, it only happened once, briefly, to me.

NetriX
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· 08/16/2020 7:57 AM
I was blocked too, our hosting provider is dropping the ball lately. thumbdown

Koffee Kosmo
OfflineAdmin
· 08/12/2020 5:37 PM
And I thought it was just me that couldn't access the site All good now - coffee kept me company

JackH
OfflineAdmin
· 08/10/2020 8:46 PM
Had to make myself another cup of coffee to get through it.

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Wiring Diagram Check
renatoa
Is too conservative, imo... I am using a similar board, having radiator very close as dimensions, to control 6 Amps (1300W@230V), for more than one year, without issues. I can touch it, so less than 60 C degrees according to a popular skin test.
Check the triac model, there are 75% chances to be a 16 Amps model, or +90% chances for 12 Amps.
 
CharcoalRoaster
Obviously I need an upgrade then Shock if I want to use this type of board in lieu of an SSR

Before I do, to mg512's earlier point, if I am using a Random Fire SSR then I don't need the board at all... but I would need a ZCD?

Damn, thought I was close to having this thing up and running Roflmao
Edited by CharcoalRoaster on 08/23/2020 12:41 PM
 
CharcoalRoaster

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Is too conservative, imo... I am using a similar board, having radiator very close as dimensions, to control 6 Amps (1300W@230V), for more than one year, without issues. I can touch it, so less than 60 C degrees according to a popular skin test.
Check the triac model, there are 75% chances to be a 16 Amps model, or +90% chances for 12 Amps.


Something like this Renatoa? https://www.tindie.com/products/bugro...50hz-60hz/
 
mg512

Quote

CharcoalRoaster wrote:

Obviously I need an upgrade then Shock if I want to use this type of board in lieu of an SSR

Before I do, to mg512's earlier point, if I am using a Random Fire SSR then I don't need the board at all... but I would need a ZCD?

Damn, thought I was close to having this thing up and running Roflmao


I'm not sure you necessarily need to upgrade. I asked the maker of these dimmer boards once on Tindie, and they said the board is in principle able to handle (much) more than 2A, you should just consider putting a bigger heatsink. Or I imagine a small fan would also do the trick. The 16A board would be an alternative I think, it looks like it operates the same way as the smaller one. I think renatoa meant to use the "2A" board you already have though, as likely the components on that board are already specced to a much higher current anyway.

And correct, an alternative would be to instead use a random-fire SSR and a ZCD. Personally I prefer the dimmer board approach, as it's easier software-wise; but ultimately both do the same thing.
 
https://www.tindie.com/products/15798/
allenb
renatoa posted

Quote

What I mean... I am automation engineer for (too) many years, and until recently, when I read this in a coffee forum, I wasn't even aware there exists on the market SSR having the ZCD function embedded !


Not sure I totally understand your point but is this zero cross SSR not what you would consider a zero cross solid state relay? The package is your typical triac with zero cross circuitry built into a common bolt on block package with terminals. Scroll down to "Zero crossing solid state relays"

www.crydom.com/en/tech/newsletters/so...0types.pdf
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
CharcoalRoaster

Quote

mg512 wrote:

Quote

CharcoalRoaster wrote:

Obviously I need an upgrade then Shock if I want to use this type of board in lieu of an SSR

Before I do, to mg512's earlier point, if I am using a Random Fire SSR then I don't need the board at all... but I would need a ZCD?

Damn, thought I was close to having this thing up and running Roflmao


I'm not sure you necessarily need to upgrade. I asked the maker of these dimmer boards once on Tindie, and they said the board is in principle able to handle (much) more than 2A, you should just consider putting a bigger heatsink. Or I imagine a small fan would also do the trick. The 16A board would be an alternative I think, it looks like it operates the same way as the smaller one. I think renatoa meant to use the "2A" board you already have though, as likely the components on that board are already specced to a much higher current anyway.

And correct, an alternative would be to instead use a random-fire SSR and a ZCD. Personally I prefer the dimmer board approach, as it's easier software-wise; but ultimately both do the same thing.


Thanks -- that was helpful. So, I should keep the dimmer board but remove the SSR from the blower equation? If I do this I am slightly confused by the wiring for the dimmer board then. The terminals for the AC input and load are quite small and probably won't accept a 12/14AWG wire coming from my vac motor housing.

Also, I was digging around in my bin-0-electronic components and found this other dimmer board. Any thoughts on which one is better? The third image is my current dimmer board that I bought from Tindie.
CharcoalRoaster attached the following images:
dimmertwo.jpg dimmerone.jpg currentdimmer.jpg
 
mg512

Quote

CharcoalRoaster wrote:


Thanks -- that was helpful. So, I should keep the dimmer board but remove the SSR from the blower equation? If I do this I am slightly confused by the wiring for the dimmer board then. The terminals for the AC input and load are quite small and probably won't accept a 12/14AWG wire coming from my vac motor housing.

Also, I was digging around in my bin-0-electronic components and found this other dimmer board. Any thoughts on which one is better? The third image is my current dimmer board that I bought from Tindie.


Hm, not sure. If they really don't fit you could solder on bigger screw terminals, or whatever other connector you like. Maybe double check the motor's current draw though if it comes with such big wires.... ;) And keep an eye on the dimmer board the first few times you use it.

And yes, remove the SSR from the fan wiring.

The other dimmer board you found is more like a traditional ZCD + SSR: It's a ZCD that sends a signal to the Arduino, and a random-fire SSR that would need a precisely timed signal from the Arduino. The Tindie board is easier to work with, it just needs a PWM signal and does the timing on its own.
Edited by mg512 on 08/23/2020 8:56 PM
 
https://www.tindie.com/products/15798/
renatoa


More exactly this:
https://robotdyn.com/ac-light-dimmer-...-110v.html

Quote

CharcoalRoaster wrote:

Also, I was digging around in my bin-0-electronic components and found this other dimmer board. Any thoughts on which one is better? The third image is my current dimmer board that I bought from Tindie.


Is exactly the same as I wrote above.

You can't compare them as better or worse, because they work different.
The RobotDyn board is a SSR+ZCD, to be used on TC4 on OT1/2, while Tindie board requires PWM as input, so is better suited for IO3 output, fast PWM control.
There are no clue in the Tindie documentation how it behave when controlled with slow PWM, as for OT1.

One important thing we don't know about the Tindie board is what is the input-output law/rule.
It is not specified, but I guess the creators from Lituania can be asked about.
TC4 is using a lookup table called phase_delay, in order to on obtain a linear relationship between the input control value and power output. In other words, when you read 50% HTR on TC4 display, or send OT1;50 from Artisan, you can be sure the result will be 500W of heat for 1 kW heater.
We don't know anything about how Tindie board handle this input-output rule, and I can imagine at least three different rules that are used in various scenarios, for other project types.

However, in absolute terms of power performance, the 40A triac, compared to the 16A for RobotDyn, the bigger heatsink and the fan, make the Tindie a heavy weight class contender, but... with a price... $56 vs $4 Grin
Imo, it is overpriced though, especially for Lithuania, whose average income is close to China, in the $800 ballpark. I think a fair price for Tindie board would be about $20.
Edited by renatoa on 08/24/2020 3:03 AM
 
CharcoalRoaster
Alright, so I finished wiring everything up and I'm stuck again... ugh... Attached it the most up to date wiring diagram.

Faint flicker on TC4 power light
No power to ZCD
No power to blower
No power to LCD screen from TC4

What am I missing? Thanks in advance!
CharcoalRoaster attached the following image:
blower_4.jpg
 
renatoa
If the ZCD board is RobotDyn, then IO3 command is not appropriate, even labelled PWM, as the board pin, that could be misleading, because there are tons of PWM incarnations.
PWM from IO3 is meant to control a DC load, using a FET.
RobotDyn board is fitted with a triac, for AC loads.

All the other symptoms are difficult to diagnose without board on the table.
 
CharcoalRoaster

Quote

renatoa wrote:

If the ZCD board is RobotDyn, then IO3 command is not appropriate, even labelled PWM, as the board pin, that could be misleading, because there are tons of PWM incarnations.


It's this board not the RobotDyn https://www.tindie.com/products/bugro...120v-240v/
 
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